50: Interior Design is Morally Neutral with Katie Saro

We focus a lot on this show about survival skills regarding your life and your home. When we struggle–and our mental health is at stake–we have to let go of lofty ideals and just do the basic tasks we need to survive. Even though interior design is not normally classified as a survival skill, as today’s guest says, “We all deserve beauty.” It’s true. We do. I’m joined by Katie Soro, a vintage dealer and artist who decided to start a new kind of interior design to fuel her passion for vintage and helping people find, curate, see, and experience beauty. Let’s dive deeper into this important topic.

 Show Highlights:

 ●      Why function AND beauty can coexist—and you deserve them both in your home

●      The first step in decorating your home: Don’t think about what others will say; there is NO wrong way to do it.

●      How a lifeless, inanimate thing can be beautiful and bring creativity to your home

●      How thrifting and antiquing allow you to curate your own style that speaks to you

●      Why beauty in interior design comes from the feelings we get from beautiful things

●      Katie’s practical tips for home design: (Keep in mind that there is NO right way to do it.)

●      Start with a room by considering the mood and function you want in that room.

●      Use lighting to set the mood and be functional for tasks.

●      Use wall art, and remember that it doesn’t have to cost a fortune.

●      Katie’s tips for finding design inspiration: Think outside the box, use Pinterest, don’t be afraid to try and fail more than once, and start thrifting to find unique pieces that speak to you.

 Resources and Links:

Connect with Katie Saro: Website, Instagram, The Art of Vintage TV Show (Magnolia Network and Discovery+)

Mentioned in this episode: www.shopgoodwill.com

Connect with KC: Website, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook

Get KC’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning

We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: www.strugglecare.com/promo-codes

• Transcript

  KC Davis 0:05

  Hello you sentient balls of stardust, welcome to struggle care. I'm your host, Casey Davis. And today we're going to talk about interior design. I have interior designer Katie Saro on the line with me, she actually sent me an email about resonating a lot with the morally neutral aspect of my platform. And I'm so excited Katie to talk about interior design being morally neutral, because I feel like a lot of what I talk about is sort of like survival skills for people like, you know, okay, it's hard to eat. So here's just how you get food in your body and like, it's hard to clean. So here's how you just get basic functioning. And one of the things that I say a lot is like you deserve to function. And what really caught my eye about the email you sent me was when you said, you also deserve beauty.

  Katie Saro 0:51

  Yes, and I, I've read your book, and I've listened to the podcast, and I'm nodding my head with everything that everybody says like, Yes, this is so great. And then at the end, I think, Wait, but what about beauty like these people that are struggling, who are underwater, who are trying to make their home functional and safe, and life enhancing, we're forgetting about beauty and that they also deserve beauty in their home and in their life. And I don't think that the interior design world ever has that message in it, at least I don't see it, not in social media, not in magazines, not in books, it's always about here are the shoulds like you should do this, you should have this, this is the rule for how to create a room. And what I've been trying to do is take your principles, and then find what the metaphor is in interior design. And it's been resonating with so many people. And I came up with just saying that your home design is morally neutral. There's no one design that makes a house look put together. There's no one design that says okay, this is the way your home should look like. So when people come over, they know that you have your crap together, because your own looks like this. You know, I saw one was a tic tac that you did, where you turned your chairs around to look outside, right. And maybe you can explain what that was.

  KC Davis 2:25

  Yeah, I had. So my bedroom in my new house is pretty large. And there's this like bay window on one side. And the way the room is sort of structured, it was obvious that that was supposed to be like a seating area. So at first I put it's like a curved bay window, right. So at first I put the chairs with their backs to the window, like facing in like it was like a conversation area. And it looks really nice. But like a few days went by. And what I ended up doing was like, I wanted to look out the window and like drink my coffee, cuz I have a really pretty backyard. So I turned one of them around. And there was this sense of like, okay, no, they shouldn't really go this way. And then I was like, Well, who cares? Like, I want to be able to like sit here and look out the window. So then I turned the both the opposite way. But then I still wasn't like close enough to the window. So I was like bringing them closer and closer and closer until they were literally like you could rest your feet on the windowsill. Right. And I was like, I am aware that this doesn't quote unquote, look right. But this is the way I want to use my space.

  Katie Saro 3:25

  Yes. And I love that because one of your prongs and tell me if I'm saying it wrong, is that a home should function in the way that you use it. And it should serve you use. It's not like you have a moral obligation to make your home look one way or the other. But when I saw that post, and you said, I know that this doesn't look right. But this is how it functions. And I'm going to do it this way. And what I thought as an interior designer watching it is I don't think that one way looks right or the other. I don't think that it looked better for the chairs to be facing the other way it might have been if it were an Instagram photo and you were taking a photo of the space and you wanted to show off the chairs, then that's what an interior designer would do. But I don't think that there was one way that you're supposed to put chairs like I would argue with you that the chair is facing one way or another is not an element of interior design.

  KC Davis 4:21

  Well, that's an interesting comment too, because I feel like so much of the information that I get about interior design are like the quote unquote rules of interior design.

  Katie Saro 4:30

  Yeah. And I saw that and I thought, oh, no, I would put them that way too. It's totally fine and totally correct. It's not throwing away design in order for your home to function. It's just that functionality and design should work together. Right? If we're saying shoulds so that's what caught my eye was that was the first spark that made me think okay, well, what does it mean for a home design to be both functional and beautiful?

  KC Davis 4:58

  Well, I love the idea like, you deserve beauty because I feel like for a lot of us, we feel like design and aesthetics and pretty much like we do so much work unpacking, like, Hey, that's not the most important thing, especially when we're doing it from a sense of like, I need to look like I'm put together I need to look quote unquote, right. And so we sort of put that aside, and then you just go for function. But I also think that there's this other like equally damaging belief that design and beauty like that, I'm not allowed to do that until I get basic functioning down, like until I can clean well and eat well. And rest well and exercise like until like, I just need to stay here in my basic white walls, because I can't even get out of bed. You know what I mean? Like, I have to get good at functioning before I can move on to like the extra,

  Katie Saro 5:49

  Exactly an episode, I have a TV show called The Art of vintage. And an episode of the show was a family that had three sets of twins. And they were both going through grad school, they had actually seven kids, and they wanted me to come into their bedroom and their house was beautiful, and their family was beautiful. And you could tell there was a lot of love in that family. But they're also just kind of drowning underwater for so many years. And finally, she said, I felt like we finally kind of started to tread water. And now we have room for beauty. And I It really blew my mind to think oh, you only have room for beauty when you're not drowning. And that thought was something that needs to change. There's always room for beauty. And the title of the episode is actually beauty is functional, which is kind of turns everything around on its head. Because we think of you know, a couch is functional because you can sit on it. And a table is functional because you can put things on it. But does it have to be beautiful? And I would say no, it doesn't have to be but you deserve beauty and beauty is functional. It enhances your life just as much as having a table to eat on enhances your life. It gets to be beautiful. You deserve to have something beautiful in your home. And it's so hard to convince people of this. Because I think beauty is a loaded term. I think beauty has been overtaken by commercialism. We think of the beauty industry. And there's a lot of negative things to the word beauty. And we think of beauty as something that's expensive that you buy in the store for your home. We think that it's for the rich, or it's for the people who have a nice home or for only people who own homes. If you're an apartment, how can you I'm not gonna make this beautiful. I don't own it.

  KC Davis 7:49

  Or like beauty also for me, it's like beauty is professional.

  Katie Saro 7:52

  Oh, there you go. Yeah, beauty is professional.

  KC Davis 7:54

  You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I would say like, I want this room to be pretty and beautiful. And then I'll like put some things up. I'll be like, it doesn't look right. Yeah. Like, it doesn't look like what I see other people doing and professionals doing and it's like, I don't know how to recreate those looks. But then it's like, I don't even know like, do I want those looks? And am I kind of in a wrong place of like it having to look a certain way. And I also feel like it's also like this big condemnation on like, feeling like a valid adult. Yes. Like there's this real, deeply embedded, I feel like consciousness where it's like, okay, when you have your favorite band poster tacked to your wall with thumbtacks. That's like someone who hasn't grown up yet. You know what I mean? And then it's like, when you're grown up, you have accent walls, and you have framed art. And you have this, that and the other. And I felt like I was like I didn't, I felt all of a sudden, I was a grown up and I was like, I don't know how to move to like, adult beauty now.

  Katie Saro 8:53

  Okay, yes, that makes sense. Or maybe it's because our homes are something that we invite somebody into. So whenever someone comes into our home, what we're thinking is, what are they judging about my home? And how are they judging me by what my home looks like? And it's the same thing for having a messy home or a clean home. But it's true people come into your house, and they probably are judging you and thinking, you know, what, who is this person? Let me look at their home and judge who they are as a person. And that can be so debilitating when we're trying to decorate if we think about it from that perspective. So when you're trying to bring beauty in your home and you're trying to decorate your home, the first step is to not think about what other people do or what other people are going to think about your home.

  KC Davis 9:43

  And even like I always say like there's the invisible audience like I carry an invisible audience with me. Even if no one is physically coming to my house. It's like I have an invisible audience in my head. That's giving me those judgments anyways,

  Katie Saro 9:57

  yes, yes. Oh, I love that. That's a good phrase for an invisible audience. And maybe we don't even know that we're doing that. But it's happening. And when I, if someone's coming to me and saying, I'm not really a decorator, I don't know how to decorate a home, I don't care about that, I just need to hire you to do it for me. And I'd say, the first step is to ignore everything that you've seen and what you think your home should look like. Because beauty isn't something that you buy, or design isn't something you buy. And the first step to designing a home is to forget the idea that there's like a right and proper way to design it. Like it's an art. It's not a science. So I can give you tips. And there are a million tips online of how to create the mood in the home, how to design a bedroom, how to hang curtains, and all those things, you know, might be helpful, but we're looking at it from the wrong way. Because the first idea is that there is no right and proper way to do it. It's about setting the mood for your home in a way that's going to enhance the way that the room and the home works for you. And you can do that through things, right? How do we do that? We do that two things. So there's an element to buying things. But what makes a lifeless thing? Beautiful. Let's start there.

  KC Davis 11:22

  Okay, let me pause. We're gonna hear a word from our sponsor, and then I want to come back and visit that,

  Katie Saro 11:27

  okay.

  KC Davis 11:32

  Okay, so ask that question. Again,

  Katie Saro 11:35

  What makes when you're buying things for your home, they're just things, right? They're lifeless, inanimate things that you buy. But what makes a lifeless inanimate thing, beautiful. I don't even know the answer to that. What I say is what makes a lifeless inanimate thing beautiful, it makes a decoration beautiful is actually humanity, that lifeless thing becomes beautiful when it points to something that's greater than what it is, when it points to something that's bigger than what it is in its own nature. So let me give you an example. You could have tile that has a printed picture of marble on it, right. And it's not real marble, it's just a print of marble on a tile, right? Or you could have a slab of marble. And what I think that makes a slab of marble more beautiful than a print of marble is that it points to something greater than itself, it points to the fact that there was a rock that was under extreme pressure and the extreme pressure that the rock suffered, created all these stray oceans and beauty and differences. And it was that pressure that made it more beautiful. And when you have that in your home, it becomes not just a table or tile, but it becomes like this sense of a gives this sense of wonder where we look at it and think is marble a metaphor for life? Like, how, how did this stripe get here? Why is this marble more highly figured than this other slab of marble? Is it because of all this pressure it went through? Oh my gosh, how old is this marble is this 1000s of years old, millions of years old. So that piece of marble that's just a thing points to something greater than what it is that marble table points to something greater than the fact that it's a table that points to the fact that we live on this earth with all of this wonder and that nature is beautiful, and that suffering brings beauty. And that's what I mean, when I say that a thing is more beautiful when it transcends what it is as an object and points to something that's bigger than itself.

  KC Davis 13:56

  How can I do that with something that's like a more mundane object?

  Katie Saro 14:02

  Yes. So the what I said was that a thing is more beautiful, because of its humanity, and what makes humans humans and not animals. And I would say more than anything creativity, right? Our ability to be creative, is what makes us human. So if you create your own art, like you just paint a painting an abstract painting or anything, you put it on the wall that is more beautiful than a print of art by the store, because it points to who you are. It points to your creativity and what you made. We have this huge painting in our dining room that my kids made. And I just gave them random pieces of objects like a stick and a ball. And I give them a bunch of paint and I just let them throw my canvas, right. And it became this big abstract art piece that cost I don't know $5 certain materials, and it's the focal point of our entire dining room, because it's not just a painting I bought at a store is a painting that points to something that's greater than itself. And what that is, is my family, the memory that we have creating it, the color choices that I made. And that brings me so much joy to see it, even though it's not a beautiful masterpiece, or work of art. And even though it didn't cost any money,

  KC Davis 15:28

  And those things also take time, like so my mom, I just my mom is moving down to the city where I live. And one of the things that's really struck me like so we're unpacking her things. And my mom has a lot of like, decorative items. But as I'm unpacking them, I just keep thinking, like, these items are so beautiful. And I'm remembering like, there's certain items of hers that I will like forever associate with like growing up and seeing that item. And then there's other items that maybe are like newer, but you know, it's like, oh, yeah, that's her like, that is something she would like or this, she bought this on a trip or she want this, I love that. And I said to her, you know, I sometimes beat myself up over, not having what I consider like a completely designed space, because I do want like meaningful objects. But like that takes a lifetime to collect, you know what I mean? And I didn't want to just like go to Pier One or Hobby Lobby and like buy the decorative stuff, so that there was something on the wall. And I told her I said, you know, it's making me feel better about my like, quote, unquote, incomplete house, because I hope one day when I'm your age, I am surrounded by like a way of decorating that has really deep meaning. Like, here's this picture that I brought back from Mexico for her here's this like, you know, cup that I made out of clay when I was four years old. And it was really like kind of a moment of oh, I feel this pressure to be like done and packaged with a bow right now at my age. Yeah, but I also want what you're talking about, which is like things to point to something more than they are.

  Katie Saro 17:03

  Exactly. And you said it takes time. And that doesn't mean that you won't have a decorated home until you're 70 years old. But it does take some consideration. So it doesn't take money. And it doesn't take a designer to make something beautiful. It just takes a little bit of consideration. And I think that sometimes we need to give people permission to take that time to give themselves beauty, because it is life enhancing. And it is important and it matters. And it matters because you matter if that makes sense.

  KC Davis 17:39

  Yeah, one of my favorite things in my house is this vintage lamp that is two Siamese cats. And there's like a little light bulb on the back. And the reason I love it is because it was a gift. First of all, I just like it think it's a really cool piece. It feels kind of one of a kind, even though I know it wasn't at one point, but somebody gave it to me for my birthday. And it was really meaningful that they not only like thought of me, but they like went to a thrift store in search of an item that reminded them of me. And I was like, okay, hold up, this is all I ever want for presents anymore. Like I want me in my friends to like go to thrift stores and look until we find something and it's like, it's always cheaper that way, number one, but also, it felt really cool to be like, Okay, this is so much more of an accessible gift. But also, I love the idea that they like walked around a thrift store until something sort of inspired them some aspect of me

  Katie Saro 18:37

  Exactly. And that's why I always talk about thrifting or antiquing or going to garage sales. Because if you go to a showroom and a furniture store, that store is telling you what your should your house should look like that store is saying this is what a room should look like you this couch should go with this chair. This is what's on trend right now. This is how much it costs and can't should on yourself like that you can't have that idea in your head that it should look like anything. And that's why thrift stores are so great. Because no one at the thrift store is curating a look for you. Right? You are the curator when you go into a thrift store, you are looking at what is around and saying, Oh, that really speaks to me that really speaks to me. And it doesn't go together because the store said that it's in the same line doesn't go together because the store said it's in the correct color scheme. And they can't trick you. Yeah, they can't trick you.

  KC Davis 19:36

  One of my favorite things that I heard an interior designer that I follow online say is like when you see something on a shelf like at Target and you think I love that thing. I have to have that thing. She's like make sure you take that item off of the shelf that's on and go put it on a different shelf and look at it by itself. Yeah, because there's so many times that you're like, you know what I walk into the Joanna Gaines section of target. I'm like I love all of these things. But I've taken I've like, bought something from that section and then taken it home and been like this is just a wire fruit basket. And it's not doing in my home what it was doing in that section because you're right, because they curated the whole space. Exactly designed. And so I kind of felt as though ooh, this one little item is going to carry all of that impact with it when it gets home, as opposed to sort of being enamored with the item itself.

  Katie Saro 20:30

  Exactly. And I think that goes back to, well, you're a therapist, and I learned in therapy, and I hope this is correct, that feelings, your feelings are always valid, but sometimes your thoughts are not, right. So you can say this thought I have is wrong. And I'm going to not think this that anymore. But your feelings are always valid. And when I translate that a home design, I say how a room makes you feel is something that you can make, you can create a room that makes you feel good. If this room doesn't make you feel good, then that's valid. And we can change that. But if you have a thought in your head that says I like this, because I'm supposed to like that maybe question that thought and say wait, is this really my thought? Or did I get this thought from somewhere else? Is this somebody else's thought that was put into my head, and I am a designer? And I do this every day and I still have things put my head in, I have to question myself and say, Wait, do I really like this? Or do I just see it on Instagram all the time? And think that I like it? Because I saw it a lot. So you always have to question those thoughts like, Is this my style? Or is this somebody else's style that I've seen so often that I think it's a good style? But actually I don't really like it?

  KC Davis 21:51

  Yeah. And then maybe also, I find that like the emotional reaction I have to a style sometimes is more about the context that that style was given to me in right. So like it when I see like cottage core tiktoks It's not just a design, you're seeing like, it's very emotional background music, it's some damn lady running barefoot through the woods. Right? And it's like, it conjures this whole, like, Wow, if I had that, I would feel peaceful. Yes. And I feel like that's almost like a little bit of a backwards way. Like, you know, I have to it's the same thing of like taking it off the shelf and looking at it by itself, where it's like, okay, I do want my room to make me feel a certain thing. But it's more helpful for me to start in the room not start with some like very curated piece of something I saw because again, a design in a really well edited tick tock video, or a piece, you know, a spoon holder in the curated Joanna Gaines section of target. Like that's kind of where I get sucked in. Because I'm like, Ooh, this is what I want. I want this feeling. And I take it home. And I'm like, I don't feel like this stupid spoon holder is not making me feel this way. You know? And so I like how you're doing it the opposite. So it's not like I stumble upon something that is evoking an emotion in me. And I'm trying to like copy that emotion there. It's like, okay, here's my living room, like, what do I want to feel in my living room?

  Katie Saro 23:22

  Yeah. How do you set the mood? Because beauty when it comes to home design is not a thing that you buy. It's a feeling. And we create feelings through beautiful things. And what I said was beautiful things are things that point to something greater than itself. Beautiful Things are creative, beautiful things are heirlooms, beautiful things remind us of a person, beautiful things point to something that gives us a sense of wonder. And beautiful things aren't just something that you buy from a curated place. And I can give tips to people of how to set the mood for their home. How to bring in beauty.

  KC Davis 24:05

  Yes, I would love some practical tips for that person, like sitting in their first apartment going. Okay, great guys, like what do I do now? Or maybe that mom that's really stressed out and they're going I really want a beautiful home. But I don't have time for that. I don't have time. Where do I go from there? Yeah, I would love some tips.

  Katie Saro 24:23

  Okay, I will give these tips but with a caveat that the first tip is that forget the idea that there's a right way to do it. And we all have always have to start from that perspective. One is the biggest tip is that you're going to want to set a mood in that particular room. So start with a room and you want to set a mood that you want that room to be. And let's say you're in we'll start with a living room. Right. What I see with a living room is that that's where we do all of our living. There's usually toys on the floor or shoes on the floor or your books on the floor studying and you think, well, this can't be beautiful because we use it every day. But that doesn't mean that it's a perfect showroom, a beautiful room isn't a perfect showroom, a beautiful room is one that feels comfortable and safe and inspiring. So here's a practical tip that I see a lot of people missing is lighting. It's not something that you buy, but you might have just inadequate lighting in your room, you should have should I say should, it's helpful to have a light that's on a table. So a task lighting wherever you sit and read. Of course, every room usually has overhead lighting, and then having little lamps in places to set like conversations. Or let's say you read a book in the corner, and you have a floor lamp there. Or you have sconces over your buffet, or just having lighting in different places, and then having the right type of light bulbs in those lights. So in a living room, I would always recommend warm light, or what's called soft white light. And that small change makes a huge difference in a room, it doesn't take any time at all. And it really makes the room feel more beautiful. Because it points

  KC Davis 26:18

  I did that in this house. And it really did make a huge difference because I don't like overhead bright lights. And so I started sort of collecting lamps like I thrifted some lamps and I there was like a one light from target that I got and little lamps and big lamps and floor lamps. And one of the things that I did that was really helpful is that online, I found these really, really cheap smart plugs. And I plugged all of my lamps into smart plugs so that I can turn them all on and off at the same time with my Alexa because at first I was like walking to each lamp every single time. And I was like this is not functional. But no, it's been amazing how much the lighting changes things,

  Katie Saro 26:59

  I have the low tech version of that, like the Christmas lights that turn on it like they plug into the low tech even cheaper than Alexa. But so at like five o'clock every night, the lights will turn on. And then the winter here, it gets dark before then, and then my kids and the whole family like oh, the lights are on, let's go into this room. And you can kind of create almost a theater in your room, or a theater in your home or like, Oh, this is the set design for after dessert. This is the set that we do in the morning when we play in the playroom upstairs. So yeah, lighting is a big change. That's very easy. And then the walls, the walls, I that couple I talked about that had seven kids with three sets of twins. And were going through grad school and building a home. I walked into their bedroom and it was blank huge white walls everywhere. And if you have a messy house, the mess doesn't get on the walls. That's a that's a greatest thing. So like we have a messy house. And I don't it doesn't bother me to have you know things around. But the walls are always the way that I put them. The walls are always the way that I arranged them with the paintings that I love. And the kids don't throw it away. I don't need to clean it up every night. I don't need to maintain the walls, it's just set the way that I like it. So, you know, some in one of your podcasts, I heard you say that some people say well, I just want like one space that isn't ruined, you know, one space in my house because I don't feel calm unless I have one room that's put together. But that's the beauty of having art on the walls that you've put up is that it never changes. Like you always have that and that's yours. That's the way that you arrange the walls. And that's always beautiful, and no one messes it up. So for me, that's what creates the Calm in the Chaos of our home is that I have these walls that I can look at that are beautiful, and I don't have to look down at the floor, I can just look up at the walls

  KC Davis 29:02

  Well and it's perfect for like parents too, because like I am not at it. My kids are three and five there. I'm not at a place where I can have like a lot of breakable items, or like decorative items like they're gonna get picked up, they're gonna get played with, you know, the dogs gonna run by your end table, whatever. So, let's take a quick break for sponsors and then we'll come back and keep talking about walls because I have more thoughts on walls.

  Katie Saro 29:25

  Okay.

  KC Davis 29:31

  So the other thing I think is really cool about focusing on your walls is that I think that it's a lot more affordable to get meaningful art than it is to get meaningful like, decorative items. Because like I've seen the tiktoks where people you know, they go to the thrift store and buy the $4 painting and then pop out the painting and they have this like incredible frame, right and then they get common What is it like unlicensed art from to download from the and then they go to fedex or Kinkos. And they blow it up big. And it's like, that's cool.

  Katie Saro 30:05

  Yes. And that's it's also like when you say art, you might think that's expensive. But it doesn't have to be it can just be creative, like what you said. And I think that we can go back to what is beautiful art. And it doesn't mean expensive art. It doesn't even have to be a painting, it could be a beautiful quilts that somebody made that you love, and you hang the quilt on the wall, it could be a mural that you painted just a really simple mural, or it could be your kids are in a beautiful frame, it could be a lot of things. But I want to have the caveat there that it's not about filling space on your walls with prints of things that don't mean anything to you, like, all it takes is a little bit of consideration of hey, what painting really made me think like maybe you study the painting in school, or maybe there's a painting that really spoke to you or it created some sense of wonder in you. And it's just a print off the internet, but you put it in a beautiful frame. And that's going to mean a lot more to you than like a print that says you know, live laugh, love, or whatever. And it's filling space on the wall.

  KC Davis 31:09

  And like pictures, I started really focusing on getting, like nice pictures made like the two apps that I use the most is I've used mix tiles, where you can get like, you know, several different ones. And when you get them for anyone who's not familiar, they're not like there's not glass, it's almost like printed on a plastic and then the little plastic frames. So they're really lightweight, and you can move them around. But I was able to get like nine little pictures for like 100 bucks, and they it takes up like a huge portion of my wall. And then I also use an app called keepsake, which is a little more expensive, but they do like professional framing, because a part of this is also like, okay, if I'm already overwhelmed, like the idea that I'm gonna like, take a picture, like print it somewhere, and then go buy a frame or then like, go get it framed, and it's really nice with the keepsake. And I'm not sponsored by keepsake at all. But it's like I literally just like pick the frame and the mat and then like it comes in the mail. And so even just like once a year, I tried to get like an updated family photo. That's nice like that.

  Katie Saro 32:14

  I love that. And if you don't have money for that third shot, your Goodwill has a website, you can go to shop goodwill.com. And all I bought the most beautiful canvas paintings that were just enrolled at Canvas original art for $5.99. Those three rolled up beautiful original works of art, and I just thumbtack them to the wall. I didn't spend the money to frame I just thumbtacks on the wall. And they make me so happy because it's like, I sit there and look at these paintings. And I wonder who painted them where they came from. Like there's the stroke of the human who made them on there. And it was cheap, easy, and really made are added to that sense of wonder that I'm always trying to create a house that creativity and sense of wonder that objects can bring to your home,

  KC Davis 33:05

  I have two pictures in my home that I really love. One is when we moved into this house. So the last house we lived in was like the first home we'd ever bought, like my daughter was brought home from the hospital there it was longest place we'd really ever lived. And when we went to closing on this house, our realtor like brought us a closing gift. And what he had done was he had taken a picture of the front of our house that we were moving out of and had someone on Etsy, like watercolor it and then he framed it and gave it to us and had the address on it. And I literally was like crying in the closing because I was like this is the most thoughtful thing. And like we're gonna look back at this house for the rest of our lives as like the first home that we ever had. And and then the iMac gave me the idea of recently we had to put one of our like, beloved cats down, she had cancer and this was actually my husband's cat he had her before we ever met at a time in his life that was really difficult. He like went and got this cat and like, you know now we've had her for over 10 years. So I did the same thing. Like it gave me the idea I took a picture of her and I found someone on Etsy that does like custom animal portraits and like for 50 bucks he sent me this like watercolor painting of her and it looks exactly like her and so now she like hangs on our wall. And it was like such an important thing for my grief especially because something about it hits different than just like a photo of her right and it's just like kind of like her head in her face. And now she's like framed up on the wall and it's almost like she's like kind of looking over us so she's like still there and so there's like these small things but that's like been like another thing where it's like okay, when I find like an art piece that I like I tried to get it and then I try to occasionally make photos but then that's like a little third category I've found like, Okay, this is like beautiful and reminds me of things but also was like I can do a little extra step, to make it really interesting and point to that like bigger thing.

  Katie Saro 35:05

  I think that's what I was talking about when I say that something is more beautiful when it points to something greater than itself. So there's a picture, right of a person. And then there's a painting of a picture of a person. And that doesn't just point to that person. But that points to how much somebody loved you to order that painting for you, it points to the artist who created that with their loving hands, you know, and all those different layers of humanity and an inanimate objects makes it more beautiful. And it's always hard. Just like the word beauty is hard. It's always hard to explain to people that some things are more beautiful than other things, because we kind of get this achiness feeling when we say that, like, don't tell me what's beautiful. Don't say don't there's no objective beauty. It's all subjective. And I don't mean it in a way that's putting down something that you think is beautiful, I say some things can be objectively beautiful, or more beautiful. And I can explain why the reason why is because it points to something that's greater than itself. And if we just take that small step to think about why something's beautiful, then we can create more beauty in our home. And that's what it's all about is just creating more beauty for ourselves as a gift to ourselves, just like care tasks are a gift to ourselves, creating beauty and just taking the time to consider what is beautiful is a gift to herself.

  KC Davis 36:40

  So let me ask you this, I'm gonna give you an example. And maybe you could kind of walk me through the process of what I should be asking myself. So one of the rooms in our house that has not been done anything with is the study. So there's like this little study, and then my husband was really excited about it, because he's never like, had a real in home office. And we haven't done anything with it yet. But like, what, what I asked myself, or where would I even start? Because I have no like designer knowledge about like, what to do in this room? Or like what pieces to get, but like, Where would I begin? If I wanted to decorate that room? Or design that room?

  Katie Saro 37:14

  Well, what I would first ask is, how do you use the room? Or how does your husband use just a desk, like he uses it to work basically. And he doesn't really have anything? And the only like, functional important thing is like his computer. Okay, that's like the functional how he uses it. And what is the light situation? Do you have windows, there's a really big window with like shutters on it that open, and then there's overhead lighting, and there's overhead lighting, okay, so we're gonna set the mood for how you use the room, and he uses the room for working. I'm doing this with my husband's in office right now, too, which is definitely a work in progress. But for my husband, he loves to work in rooms that have tons of light to needs lots of light, otherwise you get sleepy. So the first office we did was moody because I was thinking about zoom backgrounds and what a lawyer would have in a zoom background. And I did that like they just did, what I say not to do is I thought, What should I design this room to look like in a zoom background to make them look like an important lawyer. And that was the wrong way of doing it. And we painted the walls dark green and had velvet and books and wood. And he hated it because it was dark. So now we move to a different room. And we're saying, Okay, let's not think about what the Zoom background should be. Let's think about what you want in this space. So the functionality has to be one of the first questions. Yes, yes, the functionality and not what you think it should look like, which I did wrong. So he likes lots of light. And I hate white walls. I think that is it just doesn't inspire me. But he loves light, bright things. It has a lot of light. So we painted the walls white. And then right now, when we first did it, he just had what you have. So it's just a desk and a computer. And it echoes and I'm wondering if your study echoes when he's in there if it doesn't have any other furniture?

  KC Davis 39:11

  I don't know, I guess I've never looked, I do know that like functionally, you know, all he needs us to be able to do at a computer. He has like mentioned that he would love to have like, sort of like a big old school desk.You know what I mean? Like something you would see like, you know, a President signing something on or something, you know what I mean? Like just a big kind of stately desk, and he says he loves to be surrounded by books, there's really only has like two preferences beyond the functionality.

  Katie Saro 39:40

  Well, that's great. That's easy to do. It seems like he knows what to do. So I would say build some shelves and let's say you get an hour kind of push back on the big stately desk and ask him why he wants the big stately desk does he want the big stately desk because he thinks that that's what you're supposed to have when you're an adult and yet The Office, you're supposed to have the big desk? Or does he need a desk that has a bunch of drawers and is small so it doesn't get cluttered very easily? Or does he like to have a big desk because he likes to spread out and work in a bunch of clutter and have books stacked on there? So first, I'd push back on that and say, Do you really want a stately desk? Or should we have like a desk in the corner that small that doesn't get cluttered, and then another table, that's, you know, something else? So I push back a little bit on what people say that they want just to make sure that it's their own idea, and not an idea that they came up with? Because of what other people think. And then same with the books does he want? Does he use books? Or does he just want the look of books for the look of book?

  KC Davis 40:45

  Yeah, like we have all of our books that like we've read, but he like famously never wants to get rid of books. So it's not that they're like, they're all he's read them all. But he's not using like reference books, right, where he's needing to, like, get them off the shelves. And then the other thing is that, you know, so that was my first thought is like, oh, let's do like bookshelves. But then I get into these places where I don't know how to like work around certain features. So for example, in this room, there's wood paneling on the bottom half of the rooms. And in the ceiling is this I forget what it's called, where it's like a lot of different shapes. Does that make sense? It's like all of the like it's wood, a coffered ceiling. Yes, a coffered ceiling. So I'm looking at this. And I'm like, okay, he wants books. So I thought bookshelf, but then like, you can't really like put the bookshelf because like, there's not like a way for it to go up to the coffered ceiling without it can't go to do the ceiling. And it'll stick out a little from the wall over this paneling. And so that's always where I kind of freeze. I'm like, Okay, well, I don't know how to give him like, the look or the mood he wants with these, like restrictions.

  Katie Saro 41:56

  Got it. Got it? Well, and the thing with just the way that you said it kind of points to the problem, because you're saying it, how do we get it to go to the ceiling when it's a coffered ceiling? And then I'd say why does it have to go to the ceiling? You know, why? Can't it sit a little bit out from the wall? Why does it have to be a bookshelf? Why can't it be? Maybe around the so you have paneling or wainscotting? Is that what you're saying? So why don't you just put one shelf on the top of the wainscoting all the way around. And instead of bookshelf, it's just a shelf that's on top of the wainscotting that goes all the way around the room. So it still holds all the books, but it's not up and down, like what you'd see in the library. It's some strip of books that go all the way around the wainscotting. So a creative idea to that would be what I would say to that.

  KC Davis 42:45

  And then like, so if I didn't have access to you to be like, solve this. Yeah. What would I do? Like what I go to Google and like, Where would be good places to like, look around for like, if I got to a place where it's like, okay, this is the mood I want. These are kind of like, what I'm working with the Restrict whether it's like room restrictions or budget restrictions. And then you're saying like, the next step is get creative. So like, if I'm just a person who like, where do I go to get inspiration on how to get creative? Like, do you have any kind of go twos?

  Katie Saro 43:13

  Well, first, I would say that, okay, so you're saying no one like you don't have me there to help you. And we're thinking about somebody who's just in their home, trying to design around a problem. So the first rule would be think outside the box, and don't think that there's one way that you should do it. And then once you think outside the box and think, hey, this might work, then I usually go to Pinterest, and I'll just type in something and scroll through, and maybe some sort of inspiration might hit me. But really, the hard answer is that you have to try and fail a couple times, if you don't have a designer who's helping you are you really have a problem. The best way to do it on your own is trial and error. And that's how you learn, you know, try something if you don't like it, trust your gut, try something else. If you don't like it, trust your gut, try something else and know that it's not going to be done in a day. And that's that's the hard answer. But it's also

  KC Davis 44:14

  it's also kind of the fun answer, though, like not to get discouraged the first time because

  Katie Saro 44:19

  Yeah, and think of it, you know, like I said, it's an art, it's not a science. So, I mean, I hate saying go look on Pinterest for inspiration. I think you have to be in a good place before you go looking for inspiration on the internet for something and I think that you are the best inspiration. So really, trial and error is the best inspiration and to think that it's fun. It's like creating a painting, you might make a bright bad stroke and you gotta paint over it. And that in itself is a gift to you. So it's almost like the process of creating beauty is just as important as what it should look like in the end. Does that make sense?

  KC Davis 44:57

  Yeah, that's actually really helpful because Is that gives me sort of like an order of things to think on. I think that's like really helpful practical advice.

  Katie Saro 45:06

  Yeah, maybe just start is the best advice for anybody who's feeling like they don't deserve beauty, they don't know how to get beauty and they're looking around and not seeing beauty. Just start. And that's why thrifting is good to because you, it only cost you $4. So you can try something else. But you know, it's more about keeping the principles in mind than here, let me tell you your to do list of what to do in a room because it's not going to be the same for everybody. It's not going to be the same for every room. But that principle of not thinking what it should look like, of trial and error, thinking outside the box, being creative. And then thinking about is this beautiful? Because it makes me feel a certain way. And if it's not, you don't need to have it in your home. And like is the beauty because like if I was in a room alone, looking at it, like, do I find it beautiful, as opposed to like, is it beautiful? Because in my mind, the imaginary audience in my head would say that that looks right. Yes. And that makes me feel good. Like that does make me feel some type of way. But yes, and I don't know if that's even helpful. And I feel like I wrote down a list. Before we did this podcast of tips. I want to tell people tips. And people always ask me tips. And I feel like there's lots of tips on the internet for hang curtains, lighting, a rug, here's where to find them. And those can be useful. But really, the most important thing is just starting in the right place. And having the right idea before you start that it should come from within you and not from outside of you. And knowing what is beautiful. And what is commercially beautiful. So what is beautiful because of what it is and what is commercially beautiful.

  KC Davis 46:54

  I will say that that's been my like formula for my rooms here is like, Okay, I know that if I can get curtains, a rug, lighting and things on the wall that like, I have like a baseline room that makes me really comfy. You know what I mean? And then I work on like, what kind of curtains or what kind of rug or what do I want on the walls? But I know that at the end of the day, like if I could just do those. Was that four things I listed? Curtains, rug?

  Katie Saro 47:23

  Yeah, yeah, like walls, the curtains? Yeah, yeah.

  KC Davis 47:26

  Like if I could just do those four things in the types of things that I really like. And I even have some rooms where I was like, clearly this doesn't all go together. But each piece individually makes me happy. So who cares? Yeah, yeah. And like, that's kind of my little like hack for, like, if I could just do those four things that like this will feel like a room.

  Katie Saro 47:44

  And I would add to those four things, something of meaning something here, this is what I would add to those four things. Because maybe someone is like that family I mentioned who just had blank walls. And basically a cot bed, no nightstands and like a holy blanket like a one quilt on their bed. And that's all they had in the room, what I would add to your list is something that's beautiful, just for the sake of being beautiful, and no other purpose whatsoever. So something that reminds them of something they loves an heirloom piece, a painting a statue, and at least one thing in every room that you think is beautiful. And it's not beautiful, and functions, but beautiful because or is something that is just beautiful, like just beautiful for the sake of being beautiful. That's its function. Yeah. And it's functional, because it's beautiful. It's not also functional and beautiful. And I think you need at least one of those in every room.

  KC Davis 48:55

  I love that I'm gonna literally take that. And there's like one room I can think of in my house. And I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna do those five things. And I'm gonna see what it looks like.

  Katie Saro 49:06

  Well, I hope that's helpful. And you know, it's a long process, my bedroom right now has no art on the walls. We just moved in a year and a half ago. It has no art on the walls. It's just one bed. It's just the blanket that we moved. When there's no rug, there's nothing you know, and that's my job. And it's okay. It's just not where we're at right now. We have a lot of other things to do, and that's okay. But I want to give people permission to give beauty to themselves to create a beautiful home in a way that's easy and simple. Well, that's really helpful. Where can people find you if they want to follow you see you learn from you. I'm on Instagram at Katie sorrow. I have a website you can find out there. And I do have two seasons of a TV show called The Art of vintage bits on Magnolia network and discovery plus,

  KC Davis 49:58

  That's awesome. I'm gonna go check

  Katie Saro 50:00

  those out. Yeah, I don't know if I said anything helpful, but you did. You helped me Listen, I'm gonna I'm inspired on how to go fix these rooms now.

  KC Davis 50:09

  I really appreciate you reaching out. And I appreciate the conversation that we've had. Because I think that, that that is like one of the breakthroughs that I think has been most helpful to me, even as my mom's been on PI. It's been interesting. Like, when I unpacked my house, I have this like, order that I feel like I have to go and where it's like, I have to get everything out of the box, then I have to get everything put away. Then I can do the decorative stuff. And my mom, she like, got half of the stuff out of boxes, and then started hanging pictures. And there was this part of me that was like, ah, that's the wrong order. But then she said, she was like, I just need something beautiful on the walls, so that I can feel like we're getting closer to home. I love your mom. I know, I was like this is so it's such a metaphor for a life event. You know what I mean? Where it's like, Yes, I still, you know, this still needs to be functional. And I still, you know, need to meet my basic needs, and I need to survive, but like, she kind of looks at it at this holistic, like, it's just as important that I'm allowing myself to see beauty and do something enjoyable as it is to, you know, find out where all of these little votives are gonna go and like what drawers are gonna hold the silverware and things like that. So I just that was kind of my little

  Katie Saro 51:22

  Who needs a place who needs a place to sit when you have beautiful art on the walls. That couple that I designed their living room or design their bedroom that was empty and that said that they had been drowning for so many years. The first thing that I bought was a giant ostrich was a wooden ostrich that was painted multi colors. It was like life size. And that's the first thing I bought for the room. And that's what inspired the whole room and I didn't really do a whole lot else. I just bought this giant ostrich and put it on the wall. And it served No, I didn't turn it into a table. I didn't turn it into a chair. It just put it on the wall because I thought that that would inspire the rest of their house to say okay, what is the ostrich that this room needs? Like? What is the ostrich of this room? You know, what is the humor that I can bring into this room? What's the art for art's sake that I can bring into this room?

  KC Davis 52:15

  That's awesome.

  Katie Saro 52:16

  Because beauty first, maybe that should be the

  KC Davis 52:19

  I love it. Thank you so much.

  Katie Saro 52:22

  Thanks for talking to me.

  Transcribed by https://otter.ai