79: Yoga Sucks (but does it have to?) with Emily Anderson
We are discussing an intriguing topic today: accessible yoga. I want to know more about it, so I’ve invited Emily Anderson to join me. She’s been a yoga teacher since 2018 and is focusing her work this year on yoga therapy, the application of yogic modalities and philosophies in caring for people based on their unique medical and emotional needs and in collaboration with a person’s medical team. Emily does yoga therapy through her virtual studio, All Bodies Welcome Yoga. She firmly believes that anyone can come through her virtual doors and feel comfortable and welcome, which is not always the case in mainstream, fitness-based yoga studios in the US. Join us to learn more!
Show Highlights:
● Why it is important to Emily to have equity and inclusion in the yoga classroom
● Why common conceptions about yoga are a “tricky blur” between self-help, mind/body connection, and spirituality
● How different yoga positions are beneficial to the body and emotions
● How people feel health shame and sometimes associate movement with pain, punishment, or discipline
● How yoga helps reconnect us to the ways our bodies enjoy movement and give us feedback about sensations
● How Emily works with clients around pushing themselves when things are challenging and empowering themselves with options and autonomy
● Why much teaching around exercise and movement are fear-based
● How Emily conducts virtual yoga classes
● How to look for accessible yoga classes in your community
Resources and Links:
Connect with Emily Anderson and All Bodies Welcome Yoga: Website, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and The Softness Meditation Podcast
Connect with KC: Website, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook
Get KC’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: www.strugglecare.com/promo-codes.
-
KC 0:00
Oh hello, you Sentient ball of stardust Welcome to struggle care. I'm your host, KC Davis. And in the studio with me today I have Emily Anderson, there's going to talk to us about accessible yoga, which is interesting to me. Tell me a little bit about yourself and tell me about this idea of all bodies. Welcome. Okay. Yeah,
Emily Anderson 0:22
my name is Emily Anderson, I use she her pronouns. And I've been a yoga teacher since 2018. And this year, I decided to get into a field that's called yoga therapy. So yoga therapy is the application of yogic modalities and yogic philosophy in caring for individuals and small groups kind of based on their, what they may have going on medically or emotionally, and working in tangent, sometimes with their medical teams or their care teams, and all bodies. Welcome. Yoga is the name of my virtual studio that I teach out of. And that really started for me as wanting to create a space where anyone could come in the virtual doors and feel comfortable and feel welcome. Because a lot of mainstream yoga studios, especially in America, I don't feel that way. For a lot of people, they're a little bit more fitness based. And they tend to hold a lot of ideals. And I don't think those are necessarily rooted in yoga, and like the in yoga philosophy, and I wanted to make sure that there was a place where people knew that it was intentional, that they would have their needs met, that there will be equity in the yoga classroom, I am a plus sized person, I like to use the word fat. That's not for everyone. But I've been a fat person my whole life. And I know what it's like to live with people's assumptions about your bodies, and also sometimes having your body's needs overlooked. So that was my first motivator. But I found that people of all different sizes are interested in this kind of yoga, people recovering from eating disorders, folks who are amputees folks with chronic illnesses or chronic pain. So it's not a practice that either everyone likes, right, I mean, I don't have to my practice have to be for everyone, but everyone is welcome to try it is that's kind of my outlook on how I teach.
KC 2:13
That's so great. Yeah, I definitely think that like when you say yoga teacher, or going to yoga, there's like a specific type of body that comes to mind. It's very, like wealthy white woman coded. It's very, like Portlandia you know, it's very, it's either like the consumeristic side of like, I don't have to work because I'm so privileged. I'm just gonna go to yoga and all of my like, very expensive clothes, or it's very, like white hippie to me. Yeah. You don't I mean, like, I'm gonna go in here and somebody's gonna hit me with some spirituality.
Emily Anderson 2:47
Yes, and it's yoga so interesting, because there is a spiritual aspect to it, of course, because it is like, you are sourcing some of that philosophy from things like the Bhagavad Gita and the apana shots but it doesn't mean that everyone needs you know, it's not for everyone to like pick up that spirituality I think that some people pick up that spirituality as set dressing, unfortunately. And you know, there's
KC 3:11
like it isn't even really that spirituality. It's just like, random wellness woowoo stuff that they think makes it spiritual if they talk about it in the yoga space. Yes.
Emily Anderson 3:22
And I mean, it is a tricky blur between like self like, you know, the self help and the yoga because part of yoga is about connecting the mind and the body and even like in like the pain science field, which is one of the fields I'm interested in we're also talking to like bio psychosocial and spiritual write me because there is a component of everyone has some kind of spiritual wellness. But But yes, I think that people tend to maybe misuse sometimes that those good vibes only the spiritual bypassing and just that sense of picking out some things that make it maybe seem more esoteric, or mystical or transformational in a capitalist way, like the consumerist way that you mentioned, where they're trying to attract people like this is the secret and I don't think that there is a secret to it.
KC 4:16
Well, I've always struggled with yoga, and I've had some exposure to it throughout my life. And my struggle was always like, I'm extremely inflexible person, and it's just the way my body is like, I remember being in cheerleading in the eighth grade and not being able to do the things that you know, till your hips till you and I'm like, I literally cannot This is as far as they go. You know, I did even like private coaching for like months and months to learn how to do a back handspring. Never could my body literally doesn't bend that way. Yeah. And so the times that I was in a yoga class, every position was really discomfort, not just uncomfortable, but not painful, but like discomfort, and I couldn't do any of the things that seemed like they were even basic. And a lot of times, I felt like nobody ever really explained how hard it was supposed to be all just doing the same posture. And so because it's hard for me, I feel like I'm failing at it, or I must just be lazy, or I must be so out of shape. Or you know what I mean? Like, there's this health shame that comes with it. And I don't know, is this hard for everyone? Or is it me? Am I just you know what, like, it's interesting, because I don't think that somebody would think that I would necessarily look out of place in a yoga studio, but I've just never been able to feel any benefit from it. Because of those things.
Emily Anderson 5:43
Yeah. And, you know, it's one of those things where I think like, attracts like, and so there's a certain population of very bendy, even maybe hyper mobile, people who excel at yoga, yo XL, I'm saying in quotes of like, the idea of performing these certain postures, and they're like, oh, I can do this, they can do it. So they like keep her pet, yo, they're going more and more, and then you're the person in the room who's not hyper mobile, and you're looking around like everyone in this room can do this. But it's just like the way like swimmers often have a certain body type, right? Like the people who are excelling at this, like physical demonstration of advanced postures, it's because anatomy and genetics are on their side, most of the time, I feel really confident saying that I'm not particularly flexible. There's a lot of postures in even like a mainstream yoga studio that I don't do very often because I don't find them comfortable either. And there are so many other ways to get the benefits of those postures than looking like the person at the front of the room or the most stretchy person in the
KC 6:47
room. So what is the benefit of the postures? I don't even think I've ever known that.
Emily Anderson 6:51
Yeah, well, so I love that question. Because each posture has a variety of benefits and they're connected to physical benefits, they're corrected not that's not just stretching, that could be things that are benefits for your organs, like a twist is great for digestion, it also stretches your side body, and then getting more into like the nervous system twists are great for helping, you know, calm your sympathetic nervous system and raise the flexibility and activity of your sympathetic nervous system. And then you could get even more into the energetic modalities of yoga and kind of going beyond physical into the emotional benefits of a pose. So there are like layers to the poses. And that reflects yoga philosophy as well, because yoga philosophy believes in we have layers to ourselves, from our physical body and to our mental body and to our emotional body. So the poses when you are studying them holistically, they have multiple layers, but all that to say downward facing dog, I think is a such a well known pose. Even for someone who's never done yoga probably can picture someone doing it in a movie, you know, that pose is great for stretching the hamstrings and building strength and then go into the benefits from there. But you can also do downward facing dog in a chair, you could do it standing at a wall with your hands against the wall. And it's like you're flipping the orientation of gravity. And there are so many ways that you could take downward dog and find those physical benefits or beyond that don't have to look like a vinyasa yoga class, like in a Bougie strip mall.
KC 8:23
Yeah. And I mean, I just don't think I've ever had the guts to speak up and say like, is there a way to do this differently? Because again, it's also I mean, I wonder if a part of it is like movement has been so disconnected from joy or peace, like our bodies are so kind of disconnected that like, movement has always meant pain when it comes to exercise,
Emily Anderson 8:54
right, like punishment or discipline. Yeah, like it's
KC 8:58
supposed to hurt when you're pumping iron and not like acute pain, but like you're supposed to push yourself past being comfortable and you're supposed to, you know, running is really hard. It's like it's all supposed to be really hard. So I don't know how hard it's supposed to be. When am I allowed to ask for an accommodation? Or when am I just being a big fat baby?
Emily Anderson 9:20
I know and also, like a mainstream yoga class is not set up for that, right? Like when you go to like a vinyasa yoga class, the instructor is usually at the front of the room. Maybe they're walking around, but they're talking the whole time. It's not a class that invites questions, right. It's not it's not a sharing time, unfortunately. And that's it kind of borrows from things like Jazzercise and other fitness classes whereas a traditional non western application of yoga was done from like teacher to student as a conversation, and that gave people the opportunity to understand their bodies and their reactions better. So it is kind of hard because I think these are posts Is that are meant to be applied with a broad brush, because our bodies are also different. There are anatomical reasons that we can't you know that I can't do certain poses. Some of them are body size, some of them are just like the shape of my bones and the length of my bones. I'm quite short. So like, there's a lot of things I can't reach on a, you know, that someone with much longer limbs could do with a lot of ease. And that question of ease, right, and what you're saying about punishment is I totally agree that we have been divorced from the joy of movement in so many ways. And we look at little kids and being told to sit still, and being told that there's only certain ways that are okay to express, right, there's only certain ways to express happiness that are okay, there's no ways to express anger that are okay for little kids, I would say in most schools, and, you know, traditional ways that they want children, there's very few ways to express sadness. And I think it starts with kids, because like, our body is essential for expressing emotions. And when we remove the body from expressing our emotions, and we only let it be some that we can do for a goal, like weight loss, or a goal like shredding for the wedding, or whatever reasons people kind of bring up that exercise is valuable, then exercise becomes a chore at best or miserable punishment, you know, at worst, and so then we start avoiding movement. But really, we could be moving our bodies all the time in ways that feel intuitive and attuned, and doesn't need to be disruptive to going about society. But I mean, I think of like, if you're like walking around a city street, and you see like a runner, doing some like crazy steps, like high steps or something to stretch around, that's okay, because they're exercising, but you know, you could walk around and swing your arms around too. And that would just be really soothing or enjoyable, or just a good way of dispersing a little stress after you come out of a meeting. But we kind of have lost that connection. And I think yoga is a really valuable way, when you're experiencing in a way that's not teacher down to student but in a way that invites a little bit more intuitive experience that you can start to reconnect with those ways that your body helps you enjoy things and also helps you process challenging things.
KC 12:12
So what do you like? Like, what do you enjoy about, like, the moment that you're in a posture, because one of the things that I really struggle with when it comes to movement, or exercise or yoga, or any of it is that like, I feel like everyone's always telling me that I should do it for the benefits. And the benefits are always like, what it's going to do to me later, or what it's going to do to me that I've been not like feeling in the moment. And I really struggle to find movement that is enjoyable, in and of itself. And I feel like I'm nearly not going to be able to stick to like a movement discipline, if the only thing that draws me to it is like, I guess I'll just be miserable for an hour so that I can have these benefits later. You're like, oh, like, what is it like, like, doing the actual yoga,
Emily Anderson 13:00
so I can only speak for myself. For me, I think the first thing for me is that like I look at all as an experiment, like and I'm getting real time feedback from my body. And and I enjoy like the observation of like, what am I feeling right now. And so like, if I'm like sitting up and I'm maybe making a circle with my upper body, I like to be like, Oh, as I lean back to the right, I feel well pinchy you know, if I lean forward, I'm feeling sensation, and like my lower pelvis. And so I like that kind of mapping of the body that happens through movement. And for me, I find yoga, very calming, generally, there's also opportunities for it to be really energizing. And also, beyond the postures, there's things in yoga, like breath work and visualizations. And I use breath work a lot, not just in class time. But before sitting down to to meet with you, I did a little energizing breathwork, just to kind of get in the zone. So kind of seeing how my body is reacting in real time is one of the things I enjoy the most. And so I think it starts in sensations. But that can be really hard for people who maybe aren't having enjoyable sensations and a class like you are and also for folks who feel very disconnected from their bodies and might say I don't feel anything which is so common, like so much more common than I think, you know, individuals realize is that there are a lot people who feel very numb in their bodies. And that's there's nothing wrong with them. It's you know, there's nothing wrong with that, if that's a process, I would feel very numb on my body four or five years ago. So there have been times where I've shared that numbness. And
KC 14:37
I think also like if you feel like your body is wrong, or if you've been told a lot that your body is wrong. Like I think that's one of the things that happened for me is like it's the struggle to do certain things in the class is just this reminder, my body isn't right or that it's not good enough, which I think is difficult. So I interviewed a dance teacher recently and she walked like on the podcast. She walked me through dislike, she called it a brain dance, you know, where we just work, we're moving our bodies. And I felt it was like a really enjoyable experience. And then afterwards, I felt really good and really energized. And it really got me thinking about sort of this idea of, I always go back to this, like, how hard is something supposed to be because like, there's so much benefit to pushing yourself and you know, growing and you know, we don't get stronger. Unless we push a little we don't get flexible unless we push a little. And we don't, you know, even with our emotions, like we have to allow ourselves to get into that uncomfortable space to learn and grow. And I know that our bodies are the same. But like, I always wonder if, or I don't even know if you have an answer. Like if I'm in a yoga class, and I'm doing a pose, and like, the yoga teacher always has like, a certain amount of time that we're supposed to be holding the pose before she's gonna say, Okay, let's go. And so like when I get to the point of like, okay, this is now hard for me, how long after that? Am I supposed to be doing it? Right? Like, I don't want to just quit right then. Because I do want to learn and grow and get better. But I also don't want to, like, hold it so long that it's discouraging, or it's damaging, or it really like saps my, like motivation to even keep doing it. And like not enjoyable anymore. Like, I don't really know what the answer is there. Oh,
Emily Anderson 16:17
man, that's a great question. And I totally agree with you. I have OCD and I just finished exposure therapy, like a year of exposure therapy. So I'm right there with you with like, the value of pushing yourself right into those places that you can kind of prove to yourself, I can handle this, that's also a big part of working with people in chronic pain is creating a sense of safety, and then giving them opportunities to move into their pain a little bit more. And then they get to decide, you know, do I want to keep going or not? And I think that for your question, there's two parts to it, I would say that part of it is I would never encourage someone to push themselves into a place where they start to feel like they have to like they're stressing themselves so much. They're kind of leaving their body, that disassociation, I would always suggest staying in something to the point where you still feel present in your body. And I just had this experience because I sat in on someone's power yoga class where it was like, boom, boom, boom, like one pose, move, move. And I started leaving my body like I was like, I'm still doing these, you know, these poses at their behest, but I was no longer present in my body, I was out in the parking lot. And I had to reel myself back in and be like, okay, following this person's instructions is no longer a good fit for me. And that sense of autonomy, I think is really essential for people to be making informed decisions about how they want to push themselves. And that can be a conflict, sometimes in certain yoga classes if the teacher isn't giving you options. So if you're holding a pose, and that teacher is not empowering you that you can stop whenever you want to, and that there's no you know, it's not good or bad. If you hold the pose for five breaths, or 15 breaths, or 50 breaths, that's all morally neutral, how long you hold that pose for that gives you as a student more autonomy. And that way you can stay present in your body until you're like I've had enough. And then you feel empowered to have you know that you've had enough when someone is giving you instructions, and it feels like it is passed or fail that you hold this post or they say you're done. And that's a power dynamic that also can be really uncomfortable for people. So and people also need structure. So like in my classes, sometimes I'll say we're going to hold this pose for up to three breaths. But I also will be give them options like you can move in and out of the pose for those three breaths, you can do one breath, and then take a rest. Or you can use props, which a lot of yoga classes are not super prop savvy, so they don't know how to recommend props in the moment. And so giving people a lot of options is how you can empower them that they're in charge of their bodies, not the teacher, because at the end of the day, it should be you making those choices for your body.
KC 18:59
That's a really helpful like paradigm shift. Because you're right, it is like the whole time, all I'm thinking about is what is everyone in the class doing? When am I going to look silly? If I stop? Am I doing it right? And it's not me being in my body. And so I appreciate that shift of like, it's not necessarily about like getting the right answer like that. There's an objective moment where you're supposed to stop as much as like, if you can let go of the idea that there's a right and wrong or there's an objective or that like just be in your body and when the discomfort starts to take you out of that or whatever, like then you can just make a morally neutral choice one way or the other.
Emily Anderson 19:38
Yes. It's much more morally neutral. All of movement is much more morally neutral. Then like the conflict the current language around movement is right and so much of our like literature on Exercise and Movement is also like fear based in my opinion. If you're not walking 75 minutes a day, you're going to die. We're all going to die. And I think sometimes, you know, the language around movement and exercise gets caught up on this idea that we will somehow evade misfortune. And unfortunately, we can't guarantee that we're going to miss, you know, evade misfortune if we go for a run every morning, before 6am. So when we kind of take the stakes out of it, in my opinion, these high stakes is pass or fail, it lets people engage with movement in a way that's so much more natural and more individual centered. And I love powerlifting, I go to a personal trainer once a week, and those things are really great for me. And I love to having chances to push new weights and you know, try something different. But also, at the end of the day, like, if I can't lift as much as I did another day before, I don't think of myself as a failure. I don't think of myself as backsliding. It's just how I was in this moment that day. And so that's where I kind of seek my push these days, yoga is a little bit more of a down regulator for me, but there's other people where yoga is where they want to push. And for those people out, that's what I would suggest is it starts within you. It doesn't start with what the person who's leading the class is dictating.
KC 21:09
So I would love to hear a little bit more about what your classes online or like, and then I would also love to hear like if someone's listening, and they're going okay, like, then maybe I am willing to give yoga a try, like, what would I look for in a class? If I were to Google something? If I were to look, you know, walk by a studio, like what would I be looking for to find something that would be a good fit for this philosophy? Yeah,
Emily Anderson 21:32
so my classes, I teach online on Zoom for group classes, and then I also see private clients through yoga therapy online, my big tenants are that we should be having fun, we should have patience and compassion for ourselves. And that movement should be enjoyable, first and foremost. So my classes are not typically like a, you know, a push up class, my classes are like, literally called gentle all of them, you know, they have gentle in the title. And so even like in a class, like we have a gentle strength class, we might be doing a couple movements there or have opportunities to be more intense. But I also am always modeling the opportunities that are more grounding and relaxing as well. And my classes are mixed use chair and mat. So I have some students who are taking the classes in a chair or sitting on an exercise ball, I have some students who are on a mat. So I go back and forth between modeling the two. And it's a little bit different for people because I'm not always doing the exact same thing that maybe they're doing, if they're standing, I might be in a chair. But it's also a great way that people can learn to experiment. And that's a big part of my classes. Like I mentioned before, I love experimenting. And I think experimenting takes out that fear of failure, you can't do an experiment wrong, all you do is get new data from it. So the classes are in here, they're an invitation to be curious. And they're rooted in accessible yoga, which is not like a certain style of yoga, but it is a yoga training that I took and you could look up accessible yoga, it's really cool what they're doing. So it's making sure everyone's having an equitable experience in class, I'm never going to say if you can't do this, then just sit there and watch, which sometimes happens in a, you know, a mainstream yoga studio, they'll be like, if you can't do this, just take Child's pose
KC 23:16
that does happen. If you can't do this, go ahead and take the shame pose. Yeah,
Emily Anderson 23:22
go ahead and put your head on the floor. Don't look at anyone. And also like Child's Pose isn't restful for a lot of people, because it's also a very big stretch. So now you're uncomfortable and your knees hurt.
KC 23:34
Do people have their cameras on during your class?
Emily Anderson 23:38
It's a myth. There's some people I've been teaching for years. And I don't know what they look like.
KC 23:44
I will say like, that is such a huge difference maker. Like we got a peloton during the pandemic that we wrote a lot. And one of the things that I realized was like I'm in I don't actually do well with exercise, unless I'm in a class like I like the class environment. There's other people there as a teacher, there's this that the other but unless I'm already good at something, it's really intimidating to be in a class environment because everyone's at a different level. And I had this like moment of epiphany of like, This is so great, because I can go to a class but nobody can see me. Nobody can see if I have to stop. Nobody can see if I quit early. Nobody see if I'm like sweating through, you know, while they don't even break a sweat like so I really love that freedom to have your camera on or off because you're still with other people. You're still getting instruction. There's still like some structure around it. But I don't have to be perceived if I don't want to be no
Emily Anderson 24:39
and it makes it also I think so much easier for people like that if their partners or spouses or kids are coming through the room that they don't have to worry about like being distracting or keeping the square, perfectly pristine or peaceful and it's a very relaxed environment. I'm a relaxed, chatty person. My pets wander through class all the time. Sometimes my husband winds up wandering through because for some reason, so it's laid back. And it's really focused on making sure people are having an enjoyable experience. Like, truly at the end of the day, like, life is so stressful. I don't want yoga to be stressful for people. I want people to leave a class and be like, my favorite feedback ever was 120. They felt that they got a full body massage after class. That's my dream. For people,
KC 25:25
so where we'll put it in the links, but where do we find your class? If somebody wanted to try it? Yeah,
Emily Anderson 25:31
all bodies, welcome yoga.com. That's my website. And I have my like class schedule on there and bookings. And I also have a YouTube channel with free videos that I've made. They're not great quality, I learned it all on my own. So they're not yoga bite with Adrienne level quality by any means. But they have side by side chair and standing versions for most poses, so that everyone can join the class and doesn't have to feel like you have to be standing for them. Yeah. And it's also really fun to see like how the poses can be the same and look a little different. from chair to standing. I'm a firm believer that you can teach any pose in a chair, including crazy inversions, like headstand. And there's a way to bring those qualities into a seated position. So I'm really passionate about that. And
KC 26:19
if somebody wanted to look for something in their community, like what I look
Emily Anderson 26:23
for, yeah, and that's a great question. It's hard, because a lot of people use the term beginner's yoga or gentle yoga. And that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be an accessible class. So I always suggest checking out the accessible yoga website, that's kind of my go to and Googling accessible yoga in your city or town, because that will usually find someone who might be accessible yoga certified, also looking for people, like teachers who have additional certifications, like a chair yoga certification, also a trauma informed certification, which is kind of a big deal in the yoga community. It's kind of grown in the last 10 years, I would say that people are becoming more aware of traumas or you know, trauma informed care, because trauma informed, I think, lends itself to that idea of agency for the student. And that's a big part of trauma certification. So looking for individual teachers at studios, even if it's like a power yoga studio, they might have a teacher there with those with that background. So it does require a little bit of digging, but accessible yoga, inclusive Yoga, you can also check for chair yoga, and that teacher might teach other classes. And even if you don't want to do chair yoga, necessarily, you'll be with someone who is a little bit more adept at making adaptive classes.
KC 27:38
Awesome. Well, Emily, thank you so much. If somebody wants to follow you on social media, where would they do that? Yeah,
Emily Anderson 27:45
I'm at all bodies. Welcome yoga on Instagram, and I do have a Tiktok and I have an occasional meditation podcast called The softness. So those are always that I'm trying to share a gentler, a gentler, more peaceful form of yoga for folks. Awesome. Well, thank you for having me.
KC 28:04
Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai