88: Therapists on TikTok (will sometimes be mean to you) with DeeDee Wednesday, LPC-S
Today’s episode is all about mental health, therapy, and being online as a therapist. We are diving in with my guest, DeeDee Wednesday, who has created a space for intentional healing and empowerment through therapy and leadership coaching. Join us to learn more!
Show Highlights:
● An overview of DeeDee’s work as a therapist in Louisiana
● Traditional therapy is NOT today’s therapy.
● An open mind, a balancing act, and showing up as an authentic therapist
● Navigating the tricky world of TikTok (or any social media platform) as a therapist
● DeeDee’s work to show up as a therapist when entitlement, racism, and white supremacy are at play
● Understanding how moral perfectionism causes some people to act
● Having a line that you won’t cross to “do no harm”
● What it means to be self-aware
● Dealing with difficult people
● “Power is really the ability to choose.”
Resources and Links:
Connect with DeeDee Wednesday: Website, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Pinterest
Connect with KC: Website, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook
Get KC’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: www.strugglecare.com/promo-codes.
-
KC 0:05
Hello you Sentient ball of stardust. Welcome back to struggle care. I am your host, KC Davis. And we're going to talk about mental health and therapy and being online. And being a therapist online and we're going to have that discussion. We're going to see where it goes. I'm here with therapist DeeDee Wednesday, and she's a licensed professional counselor supervisor. And we have decided, listen, there are two types of guests. Okay, there are preparers, and there are those that shoot from the hip and DD and I have had zero pre conversation about what we're going to talk about. Because we are both to shoot from that people DeeDee. That's my favorite kind of guest, and welcome to the podcast.
DeeDee 0:42
Thank you. Absolutely, I am definitely a shoot from the hip kind of girl. If I plan, it always feels fake, and disingenuous and non authentic. So it is so much easier for me to just like I told you earlier just to run my fucking mouth, and let's get it out.
KC 0:58
So and I learned that the hard way, because some people are not like that, and I'd get on the podcast. And I could tell they were kind of struggling. And I'd be like, Oh, this isn't as good of an interview as that could be. And so then I started having like, pre meetings with people. And then some people would end up giving a much better interview because we had a pre meeting. But then I noticed other people, it was like a worse interview if we did a pre meeting. And I was like, huh, there's a big difference here. Right? Like, let's see the different personality types and how you need to rock this out. Like what do you need? Yeah, because I'd end up having pre meetings with people on Zoom, and the conversation would be amazing. And I'd be like, Okay, this is gonna be a great interview, but then we go the interview, and it would feel like stale. And I was like, I should have recorded the free meeting. Right, right. Yeah. It's like you drop all the gyms and they've got nothing left. Exactly. So okay, share a little bit about your background. So the audience kind of knows who you are, where you're coming from.
DeeDee 1:45
Okay, I am a small town girl from Mirage, Louisiana population of less than 500. I am a therapist here in Louisiana, I practice with predominantly black clients. I also use ancestral practices. I'm a hoodoo practitioner, I do things that work for my community, with my community in practice, and I try not to break any ethical laws, or at least not get caught.
KC 2:09
I love that. So you know, one of you've talked about, like decolonizing therapy and your tick tock channel, and I've talked about that on the podcast before as well. And one of the things that I thought we could kind of talk about and use that as a jumping off point is, I feel like therapists being on social media, specifically on tick tock is like a very new thing. Absolutely. And I feel like there's a connection here, because I feel like white western therapy very much coming from that like, you know, IRL, early, sort of like Freud, you know, aspect of like, okay, the therapist is a blank slate, you know, they don't disclose anything about themselves. It's Uber professional, you know, there's really strict boundaries, like you're really almost taught like, you have no identity, when you go into that room, you're just a mirror, this that any other. And that's very, very white western therapy. And so I wonder if some of what people are really struggling with to see therapists online, or even as a white therapist, like what I'm struggling with is like that weird balance of what we've been taught a therapist should be. And here we are online. And we're not doing therapy online. But it isn't, it isn't just a personal like, we're talking about mental health, where we're bringing our expertise to the table, and the audience doesn't know what to do with that, like some of them are upset of what they're seeing. And I feel like there's a connection there, other peers, but it comes from this individualistic lens of like, everyone for themselves. And what being online and open to the broader community does is it does just that it opens this kind of community of like, okay, I'm not your therapist. But here I am to, like, give insight and feedback and information and education. And it's like, you can't do that. You're supposed to be no one. I remember Dr. Miller, shout out to Dr. Miller, he was one of my favorite professors and grad school, he used to have a saying you have to leave your person at the door when you walk into session. And a lot of us were taught that. And if I'm just going to be transparent, that doesn't work, right. A lot of the progress that I see with clients comes in because they can relate to me as a person, right? That leaves your personality or leave your humanistic traits at the door. It doesn't work anymore. I'm not really sure it actually ever really did. Because you also had people in session and in treatment for five years, 10 years talking to these blank slates. That relatability that people feel when they can see you as a person. Because we're not just giving advice or education or all that stuff online. We're also talking about our real lives right online. I talk about coming out in my 30s as a lesbian, marrying a woman and incorporating my head into that and what that looks like I talk about, you know, being a hoodoo practitioner and all of those things. All of those things are part of me as a person, not necessarily only a part of who I am as a therapy
DeeDee 5:00
And those things bring forth so much relatability. And I get to show up as a person, and it really does piss people off. Because I think a lot of old school therapist, they didn't get to do that, right. And I think that some of it is a little bit of envy. But also, they don't know what that looks like. And it just feels wrong because of what is taught. But I still go back to community, right and creating what we're doing online is creating communities. And that goes against everything that colonization stands for, even in therapy. And I wonder too, if like, so the way I came into my graduate degree is like, I got sober at 16. And I was really involved in 12 Step groups, and I was doing like sponsoring, like, what, whereas mentoring a lot of people and I was involved with my church and like a mentor capacity. And they're like recovery ministry. And I was going out to different like treatment centers and like telling my story and talking to people who are trying to get sober. And so before I ever got my graduate degree, I was operating a more like community centered, almost like really counseling, where it's like, you brought your whole self and identity. And so I think that because of coming into it that way, I had a slightly different perspective when I went in, and I was sort of told, like, leave it at the door, leave it at the door. Now, that being said, I remember approaching the, like the head of our department, he was a psychiatrist, and he was one of the few psychiatrists that also did therapy, right, because they don't typically do it. i Yeah, he did both because he thought that was really important. And he had, I was trying to bypass a prerequisite to get into my, like, practicum. And he told me that his concern was that usually when he gets people that had come through, like 12 Step groups that were really strong, like a sponsor mentors, they struggle with the counseling, like the graduate degree counseling stuff, because they're used to only sharing their perspective. Like, it's like, if it worked for me, it'll work for you. And he was like, if you're going to take that leap into being a professional counselor, like, you have to be able to see people as something different than just your own experience. And so, you know, I feel like it's almost like there's this way to thread the needle, where like, it doesn't work to check your whole self at the door. And there's something that we do have to do of like opening our, like getting outside of our own box. Does that make sense? And I feel like I mean, surely we can teach people that without telling them to like, check their identity, right? It's a balancing act, right. So I can't show up blank, because I'm not blank on an actual piece of paper. So I have to bring some of me in. And I have to bring that in. Also, in order to make clients feel comfortable. No one is coming to you with their deepest, darkest shit. And you're sitting there looking like perfect, Patti, they can't relate to that, right? That's why I have clients and they come in and like, Oh, my God, I feel like I know you, I can just tell you anything. Well, sometimes you do feel like you know me, because you've been watching TED talks, or because when you come in, we have this conversation, or we have this consultation, and I'm rattling on about whatever's going on in my life, but also to speak to what you said, and being able to have an open mind right and not being closed off to understand that if this works for me, then this will work for you. And that's where the balancing act comes in. And knowing that like, Okay, I have to be relatable, I have to be a person, right? I expect you to show up authentically, I have to do that too. And also, I have to have enough understanding to know you are not me. Right. And I think that comes from one thing that's really important is consultation, but also just knowing it, we do a lot of like trainings and like we were just talking about like ACA and like CEUs, and all of those things, but you're a person and you can't do this work without understanding that people aren't you? Right. And I don't think that that's something that we have to spend a semester teaching kids or teaching, you know, therapists in training, either you have that understanding or you don't.
So I'm curious, like, from the time that you've been on tick tock like, what has it been like for you to sort of think through like, Okay, what is this platform mean? And how much of this is me as a professional? And how much of this is me as a person? And how much? You know, it's a weird balance for me that I don't even know if I know exactly where I am with it. Yeah. Tick tock is scary for me, sometimes people the board for anything. Yeah, the balance for me is, I'm going to be honest, I got to a place where I just can't worry about it. I'm just showing up and giving my content for whatever it is today. And that just has to be because if I can, I'm going to be honest. When I first started, I was really rigid about what to say and how much to say and what are the rules saying What does ethics say? And the content was bad? Yeah, it sucked the content was bad. And it was rigid content. And I had to decide, okay, I know me, I'm not gonna break any ethics. And if I do, it won't be intentional. It won't be that great of a deal. I just have to show up as a content creator also. And I don't know if you'll like this, but I also came to the conclusion that I don't really care if I lose my life.
KC 10:00
This is I mean, listen, I'm in a similar boat. I mean, I hope that I keep it because it benefits me. But especially as someone who doesn't do any client services, like people who get mad at me online love to threaten my license and say they're gonna go to the board and all this. And there's always a part of me that's like, it's like when you call someone's boss and find out that they're self employed. And I'm like, Yeah, that would suck, because like, it is really nice to be able to say that I'm a therapist, there's some credibility there. And like, if I lose my license, that just, it gives the impression that I've done something wrong, even if I have it, but also, it's not gonna stop me from writing books and making tic TOCs and doing podcasts like it's not, and I have a private practice, and I see clients for a living, but also they're gonna show up with, I get to call myself a therapist or coach anyway, because the work is good. And I also have gotten to a place where I feel like the license kind of holds me back more than it benefits me, right? It benefits me to say I'm a therapist, like if I have to, you know, go to a conference and do a training or be a panelist, they can say, well, here's duty, and these are her credentials. And that's nice and also worked for and spent a lot of money for it. I like to keep it but it's just not worth it to me not to be myself and the license. I also feel like they need to revamp it. Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things I talk about my other therapists, friends is like, the boards have not caught up to social media, they don't know what to do with social media, most of the ethics are about your clients. And so so many of my friends that have been reported to the Board with the board will turn around tell people is like, it's your client, it will be like, No, and they'll be like, then, okay, like, but at the same time, like, again, it's this weird for those of us that have platforms where it's like, sometimes it's just me walking around with my dog and telling people to go fuck themselves when they're mean to me. And but then like, sometimes it's me talking about genuine like giving psychoeducation and saying, like, I'm a therapist here, some psychoeducation and like attempting to be a therapeutic presence. And I do think it's interesting, like psycho education and interpersonal therapy have been and for those of you don't know what those terms are, psycho education is basically just the like, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's education around like psychological and mental health principles, and counselors, get a lot counselors, therapists, you know, psychologist get a lot of training about the way the mind works, the best way to go about things from a psychological perspective. And so when you go to therapy, there's a good bit of the therapist just kind of telling you and educating you on things and how things work in the mind. That's called psycho education. And then interpersonal therapy is like the processing part, right? Where they're talking to you and you're talking to them. And we're like, they're having feelings about things that you say, as a therapist, and you use that at like, you're the what did they used to say where it's like, it's like, your therapist is like the test relationship, right? And you're like talking about things, and there's transference and countertransference, and all that. But like, that part is the interpersonal therapy. And for so long, the therapist, like go paying for an individual session was the only way that you got both of those things, they came from both of those things, right. And now we're seeing this divide, where like, none of us are trying to give interpersonal therapy online, like through like social media, but we do want to show up authentically, as with our credentials, and give psychoeducation because I think a lot of us feel like that should be more free. You know what I mean? Like, it should be free. And I mean, not that we shouldn't be able to make money from it, but like, people shouldn't have to go pay, you know, 100 $200 an hour just to hear some information. But I do think that like, the public doesn't know what to do with that. If it's like, I can give you psychoeducation that does not bound me to certain ethics around like how I must interact with you as a person, right? Because there's also that entitlement, right? People feel entitled to you as a whole, right? So if I'm giving psycho educational information, if I'm just giving information about what makes something diagnoseable if I'm just talking about ADHD, or even if I'm just talking about my ADHD and how that works, and how that shows up, people feel very entitled to all of you, right, so even if I'm just providing the information, if I'm just giving the psycho ed the sock aid, they feel entitled to a session they feel entitled to the interpersonal parts of that and even if you're not providing it, they feel like they're getting it and they're entitled to it and if you do something to this them off, they will use all of that as a whole to punish you. Yes, I feel like that's one of the hardest things for me to navigate as a therapist on tick tock is when people will sometimes say like you go after anyone that disagrees with you, which is ridiculous because if you've ever seen me interact with people in my comment sections that disagree with me, it's always civil if they're truly just saying like, I don't know about this or like see, I have a different perspective on this or here's what I think we should think about like I love those kinds of conversations. But after three years online, my tolerance level for any type of like derision or snark around life.
cuz, you know, you're wrong, and you're shitty for it, because people act like they don't know they're really up to sometimes or they're really intentionally obtuse. There's a huge difference between disagreeing and being disrespectful, right? You can disagree with me, that's fine. She's sometimes I disagree with things that I've said before. You can disagree with me, you can communicate that. But what I'm never going to tolerate is you being disrespectful. And people feel like because you're a therapist, because you have this title that I can disrespect you. And I can say whatever I want to you, and you're not allowed to say anything back, you're not allowed to match my disrespect. You're not allowed to be snarky back with me. You're not allowed to say anything, you're not allowed to match my energy, right? You just have to take whatever I'm spewing at you, because you're a therapist, and you're supposed to your only job is to help people. You know, what's interesting about that is that like, if you're in a session with me, and you are disrespectful to me, sometimes I think people don't realize what they're paying for. Because like, part of what you're paying for is not the right to be disrespectful to me, but and especially because I worked in addiction for so long. So I'm used to what we would call resistant clients, right? I don't love the term, but clients that are gonna be mean and rude and disrespectful to you and all sorts of things. But like part of that work, the reason why it's so difficult is that like you do take on the responsibility to absorb some of that. And it's not that you don't address it. It's not that you don't confront it, but you confront it with their needs at the top of your mind, how can I best communicate this in a way you will understand. So I'm not looking to communicate it in a way that feels like a slam dunk to me, right? Like, that's not what I'm here for, like, I have to have the skills to like check that put it on the backburner and deal with that somewhere else, like this client is paying for this room to be a place where we put their learning process be above me, right. And so I have to do a lot of emotional labor in that moment to sort of absorb whatever kind of ridiculous mistreatment you're giving me. And help you work through that in a way that can make you a better person and maintain a positive attitude towards you in that process, even as I'm being very honest with you. And you know, that might be uncomfortable. I think maybe people don't understand that process. Because I feel like that's what some people expect from you online. But that process is work, right. And that's what makes the session work. Because I'm intentionally I'm holding you accountable and being present in the moment. But I'm also holding back a part of me that still a person that wants to say fuck you, right? And that work, it's effort. And outside of that, on social media, this isn't work, this isn't my job, I don't have to do that. And I don't owe you that level of work that you just because you feel entitled to it. I don't owe you that. And I think that's like the true like, instead of teaching people like check your whole identity at the door, that's like the real truth to like, checking yourself, right, or like holding back parts of your real self is that like, in a friendship, you know, we're on equal footing. And my needs matter just as much as yours. And I you know, but it's different when I'm, like ethically bound, and I'm accepting money, like I'm being paid to be less than a whole person in that room for your good because you need a practice relationship. Right. And and I think that's like, kind of almost like even the part that feels triggering to me is like, the entitlement, like you mentioned, of like, you will be this less than a person for me, because I'm entitled to it, as opposed to this almost like more respectful, like, you will pay me for this. And I have trained for this, and I can do this. Yeah. And for me, it's triggering, because it's one of those things where it's like, you're always expecting me to be less than and to show up less. And, you know, I make a lot of content about race. And like, the ways in which racism and white supremacy, shows up in therapy and the ways in which it just shows up in the world. And when I have people who are still entitled to this idea that I'm supposed to show up as their therapist, I'm supposed to put a portion of me on the back end for them. For me, it's triggering, because it's like, you still see me as less than a human as a full human. Because you don't not only do you see me as a therapist, but you also see me as this little black girl who has no right to talk to you this way or no right to hold you and your community accountable. And it's Be quiet, right? And so when I hear it's like, oh, I'm less than a human or I'm not showing up as my full self or I don't get those same rights just as a full human. It's super triggering because it's like you don't think I'm a person anyway. You don't think I'm a human anyway to the same degree in which you are do you find that like some people are very quick to go there as soon as they get triggered to go to work to go to that space of like, like if someone online are like okay, now I'm upset with DD for some things
She said, and so I'm going to immediately go to this place where I'm going to attempt to make her feel less than I'm going to show my power differential or I'm going to, like, show you that you're just a product to me. Yeah, because it's easy, right. And when you say something that creates, you know, actual thought, or is triggering to someone else, or hold a mirror to them, or accountability, sometimes it makes them feel small. And they go to what makes them feel big, right, which is going to be there. By making you feel something which is going to be their privilege, right? I'm bigger than you because my race is bigger than yours. Right. And so I have privilege and power here. And you can be a smarty pants and you can know this fancy words, and you can say whatever, but my race Trump's yours. And I'm going to make you feel small because you made me feel small, and I can make you feel small here automatically. Or at least try to, it makes me also think about how like times that I have like snapped back at people. And I get those comments that are like, I can't believe this is how a mental health professional acts, you know, and it's again, it's that unawareness of how much labor goes into being that like sounding, you know, neutral sounding board for someone and but it also kind of goes hand in hand with what I feel like is like my, like the culmination of a lot of my journey through being institutionalized and a troubled teen rehab through going through like a cult like 12 Step environment and evangelical church where like, there was this and it's interesting, because this shows up in a lot of different areas like this shows up in like fundamentalist Christian spaces, but it shows up in a lot of new age spaces, and it shows up and a lot of social justice spaces. And it's this like moral perfectionism or like ethical perfectionism, sometimes even it shows up in therapy, like, we've been doing therapy our whole life, because we had a lot of trauma. And we get to this place where it's like, we feel like, you know, every moment we are beholden to being the most moral, the most ethical, the most Integritas the most like, Okay, what is the healthy thing to do at this moment? And I mean, I'm not telling anybody just like, go postal on people. Like, obviously, I do feel like we are beholden to learn and grow and, you know, not harm the people around us, but like, at what point like, as therapists, like, is it okay, and important to say like, yeah, or sometimes you can just tell someone online to go fuck themselves, right? Kind of a messy business of being human like, and I feel that, you know, for two years straight, I made this very particular content about cleaning house and self compassion and being that compassionate space. And what I found happened is that anytime I stepped out of that role, people were very quick to try and shame me back into it like, no, no, I want the nice white lady who talks about cleaning,
DeeDee 22:45
yes. Right. Because I'm comfortable with her. And she makes me feel comfortable in my life. So bring her back, because that's what I want. I found parts of myself almost like rebelling against that. And I don't even quite know like what that is, but it was like, the more people tried to shove me into that box with an air of entitlement of like, no, no, no, get back in that box, something in me rebelled, was still there, where people tried to tell her what to do. And we're always telling her what she had to do. And the more she still there shouldn't go away. We treat her she's in a better place. She's got her healing hat on, but she's still there. And you can't tell her what to do, especially from a place of entitlement. Yeah. Especially if you're using things that feel familiar like shame. Sometimes it amazes me like how simple things like that don't occur to me, even though I'm also a therapist, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes it just takes someone else in for me, I had this conversation yesterday on live with Nikhil and I was saying, you know, a large, what therapy sometimes is, is just looking at the picture, just being able to stand outside of the picture and see it for its wholeness. I can't see my picture, I'm in my picture. I can only look to my left to my right. And up and down. There are things that are outside of my scope and my picture. Yeah, I think in some ways, it's been really healing to be in this space. Because like part of what happens in troubled teen, a cold Evangelical, it's very much a high control environment where like you what you're allowed to do and your worth and your reality are dictated by like the social pressures coming at you and what other people are saying. And I had to learn really quickly on like a big tick tock platform that like you can't win for losing, like no matter what you do, like people will be mad if you share a hack that cost money, but then they'll be mad if you share a hack that's not eco friendly. And you realize, like, oh, I literally can't please everyone. So how do I develop but at the same time, like I know, it's important to listen to people. And so it really made me have to rethink a lens by which How do I listen without being dictated by right like at some point, I have to look at a comment and go it's important that I listened to this or It's important that I don't listen to this. And people want it to be black and white.
It's not it's not how does government make you feel? Right? And so that's how I operate, like, whatever I have the capacity for today is what you're gonna get from me. And depending on how your comment makes me feel, that's how I respond to it. Right? And energy and discernment is real. And I don't have to have data to prove Well, I know you're being an asshole to me. Yeah. And I feel like that's why I do have like, and there is like a line of integrity in my mind, like, I will be blunt, I will be sarcastic, I will clap back. But like, I have a line by which for my own integrity, I don't cross right. But I've got a lot of room to play before I get to that line. Here's the thing for me it is I got one rule, do no harm.
And that's it. And there's a lot of playroom between me being snarky back with you and me being harmful. Yeah, my own morals in the things that I believe are right are always going to trump ethics. And I'm not going to cause you harm, but I'm also not going to let you cause me harm either, and take no shit. We need that on the shirt, do no harm and take my shit like, and that's who I am as a person also, right? That's who I am. In my real life. That's who I am professionally to, I'm not taking it from clients, not harmful shit, I'm not gonna let you harm me, because then I'm no good to the people that have to come after you. That's true. Like I have discontinued client relationships, because, you know, I know what I'm being paid to do. And what they are giving me surpasses my ability to maintain healthy in the room. Yeah, and I am a therapist, and your mental health is important to me. But mine is still more important. I'm not going to let you put my mental health in jeopardy ever. You can have your money back. It's funny. Like there's this process where like, I think about where I was, before I went to rehab where I had like, zero self awareness about the kind of person I was being in the world and the way I was impacting other people. And I was always thinking about myself and what I wanted and what I needed. And I was pretty manipulative. And I went through this process where I opened my eyes to like, wow, this is how I'm impacting the people around me. And I want to be different than this. And and I am now aware of my motives and my intentions and ways that I may be manipulating people in ways that may be being disingenuous. And then like, so it's like, it's important that we become self aware. But then there's this point, we end that we really commit to growth, and we commit to doing better and we commit to being intentional about what we're doing and why. But there's this point at which we have to start then looking back out. Otherwise, we just become as self absorbed as we were when we weren't self aware. And it becomes about like, oh, did I do the most healthy thing in the world there? Did I did that do the most honest thing in the world there. And then we're like in a whole other different type. And it's like, that's that process of like, sometimes, like, yes, we don't want to be so like blind or unaware that we're hurting people. But once we wake up inside and become aware and have some insight into our behavior, and are trying really hard to do different, like, at some point, we also just have to go, okay, also live and just like be a normal and just be a person and just, like be messy and make some mistakes and don't like feel like every single decision has to be like, you know, how could I have done that better? Yeah, and that's two sides of the same coin. And it's hard to do. And I am along the belief system that like, that's not something we can teach in a classroom that has to be learned through experience, because I can speak for me, I remember, you know, getting my cap and gown and my degree and my little provisional license to practice and screwing up shit because I wanted it to be perfect. Because I wanted it to be right, I wanted to be about only the client and show up for the client and do what was best for them. And sometimes that was hurtful to them too, right? Because sometimes what our clients need is a person in totality, right? Not just some of me some ops, sometimes all of me does have to show up because you're going to meet all of other people outside of this room. And you need to know how to deal with them and how to cope with their behaviors and how to form relationships and how to be healthy with them in their totality also, yeah, the best like the best advice I ever got from my supervisor when I would deal with quote unquote difficult clients and I just mean clients that were like really kind of intentionally throwing jabs and things, right? Is like I would go in I'm like, Okay, I've got one client, which comes into group and I'm just like, genuinely scared of her like she's got such a sharp tongue. She's got to dress me down. Like I almost like don't want to hold her accountable for anything because I know it's gonna go blow back out and overheard her saying like, the way you feel about a client is the best information that you could have to help them instead of trying to figure out what to you
KC 30:00
Do what that feeling, just take a step back and bring that feeling as a way of working with that client. And I'll never forget, like that particular client, like she said something to me in group one time. And she was like, I don't even know why you are here. I was the executive director of a treatment center, and I do in a group, but she was like, why are you even here? Like, you are not our therapist. And I feel like you just like to dip into groups. So you can like feel good about yourself, like you are some great therapist. And it was like, all like, starkly cruel. And so but finally, I like remember what her said, what she said about, like, what you feel about the client is the best information you can give them. Because what she said was the way you feel about a client is probably the way most people feel about them. Right? Absolutely. And that's how they're going through the world. So I just like calmly was able to look at her and I was like, Can I can I give you some feedback about how experienced you just like, Yeah, I was like, Man, I'm, I'm scared of you, I'm scared of you. Because a lot of times when I interact with you, I know you're going to like find some weakness in me and exploit it and makes me not want to, you know, hold you accountable or get close to you. And I just, I can't help but think and maybe that's the way you've been dealing with a lot of people in your life. And if other if people are really too afraid to get close to you, it just makes me wonder how lonely you must be right? And all of a sudden, it's like the wind went out of her sails. And it was like, okay, like, and I remember being like, I finally understand what my supervisors been trying to tell me like what my job is, as the therapist, it's not to deal with like, Oh, my feelings are hurt. But it's not to ignore that my feelings are hurt or take it or whatever it's to, like use that as a way of like compassionately being honest with them. Anyways, I forgot who I told that story, but, and reflecting it. Like oftentimes, people have no idea how they're perceived by other people. They just know how they feel once people perceive them, right. And so reflecting that back and saying, Hey, like, this is how you make me feel. I'm sure this is how other people may feel, too. And what I love to do is give a hypothesis as to like, why you do that, right? Yeah, because a lot of times you want to punch me before I can punch you, God isn't that all of us. I mean, most of us walk through life. And it's like, that's our Mo i want to punch you before you punch us. And I do feel like most of my growth can be summed up by learning not to punch people before they punch me. Yeah, because most people are gonna punch you. Yeah. And then not being afraid to punch back when they do. Like there's a big difference. And people don't know the difference. So they see any kind of punch. And they're like, Oh, that was so unenlightened of you how could a therapist ever do that? Like, there's a really big difference. There's a big difference, right? And knowing that is the key, right? I try, I had a lot of anger, like growing up and into like early adulthood into my 20s. And so I was just walking around punching people just assuming that they were going to punch me, right, and punching, and not just a punch, like beating up like full on, here we go, here's the secret, because I don't want you to hurt me at all. I'm terrified that you're going because one blow from you is going to knock the wind out of me. So I'm going to kick your ass before you can even think about it, right. But that's just hurt in trauma, and understanding that and getting to a place where it's like, I'm not going to punch you, I hope you don't punch me first. And knowing that for me, it's knowing that if you punch me, I'm going to lay yourself, right, I'm going to trust you not to punch me and trust me that if you punch me that I have the ability, the skill to know how in the world to punch you back. And then if I choose not to, that was a choice, that was my choice. And it came from my power, not you. I don't know about everybody else. But I feel like the majority of my like, struggles with things come down to situations where I feel like I've been made to feel powerless. And how hard that is to cope with feeling powerless is the paralyzing, right? And I think that we've all had some experience where we felt paralyzed by our lack of power. And it brings so much fear in us. When I feel like I don't have any power. I also get to a point where I feel like I don't have a bunch of hope. And I can't move I can't speak well. I can't articulate my thoughts. My thoughts are disheveled and they're all over the place. And that place scares me right? Because you instantly go back to when it was true right so the idea of pedal power right now when I'm a powerful person terrifies me because now I have to go in my brain. It goes back to 13 year old chick with an eating disorder that no one believes can be depressed because she's black and she's smart and she's gifted so she has to be perfect and feeling powerless. That's what automatically goes back to and so it creates paralyzing fear in the moment even when you've got some power and it's terrifying.
That is what it is and like that there's like, I feel like distress tolerance is like not centered enough in therapy and talked about enough. Like I will say, with everything that was kind of screwed up about my experience in troubled teen industry, part of what I did learn there was distress tolerance, like we had to have these groups where people would quote unquote, confront you and tell you like things you were doing wrong. And sometimes it was obviously just like other clients that didn't like you that were just like dressing you down. And sometimes it was legitimate mirror to your shitty behavior that was really painful to look at. But we had this rule that you were not allowed to respond. You couldn't argue you couldn't give feedback, you couldn't respond for 24 hours now and 24 hours, you can come back to group and be like, I thought about this. And here's what I think. And here's whatever, whatever. And I will say that I'm not suggesting that anybody implement that, because I think there's some problematic and some nuance to that. But I will say because it increases the feelings of powerlessness in a lot of really problematic ways. But I will say one of the things that I had a therapist that was really helpful that I did walk away with is that like, in those moments where you feel powerless, it kicks on your fight or flight. And it feels like if I do not do something, now I'm going to die. If I do not do something now something horrible is going to happen. And learning that that is not true, that you can feel the war rage in your chest. And no, actually, I'm going to be okay, like this hurts. This sucks. This feels bad. And it is survivable it is and reminding yourself of that in the moment, because I have survived this before. Right? I have to tell myself at my I'm 37. And there are times when I have to tell myself, this is not the worst shit I've ever experienced. Right? It's been worse than this and that and I survived it. And I don't actually have to do anything. I mean, I can I don't have to. I can't if I choose to, but I don't have to. And I'm still going to be okay. I don't have to completely retreat into depression. And I also don't have to fight my way out using rage. I can just simply be and that's really different than shut down, do the right thing. respond appropriately. Like there's a big difference between like, Okay, now do the healthy thing now do the mature response now. And Whoo, I have rage swirling inside of me. But it's not going to hurt me. It hurts. But it's not going to hurt me. It's not going to damage me it's a tornado inside a glass bottle. And it actually can't get out unless I break the bottle. Right? I have to allow it out. And it'll die and it'll go away. And I will still be standing. Yeah, I get to choose, right. And that's what power really is the ability to choose. Like, I get to choose whether I let the tornado out. And I also get to choose to suffocate it in the bottle. Right? Because through that suffocation it's going to die cut. Isn't that such a more honoring way of being human? Like you're neither beholden to being this perfect mature therapist all the time. Nor are you beholden to being completely reactive all the time like that there is something there is like a third option. And I think especially as women like that's important, like there is a third option of being wholly I guess, in your power, for lack of a better term that looks neither like being reactive all the time. Nor like being silent or always mature, quote unquote, yeah, getting to a place where you react, how you want to, and not how you have to that to me is my power. Maybe that's the third way right? Like there's this how you have to but then there's also the how you should and when you can get to the where you want. That's cool. And where I want to not based in my trauma, and not based in my fear, but just how I did he Priscilla Wednesday how I want to respond to this. That's where my power is not how you expect me to fuck your expectations. What do I want from this? And so when we get the negative comments in, you know, in the comments section of our posts, how do I want to respond? Right? Sometimes it does look like, whatever I'm gonna block them and move on. Sometimes it does like this look like I'm gonna just you down back. Sometimes it looks like nothing. And sometimes it looks like I see, like, sometimes it is this compassionate response. Yeah, because that's where I am today. That's where I am today. And that's what I have the capacity for. I'm in a place of compassion. I've had a couple of sessions. I had my own therapy session today, and that's where I'm at. And that's how I want to respond. Yeah, like sometimes I want to respond and educate and compassionately sometimes I want to respond and stand up for myself. Sometimes I want to respond and be funny, or sometimes I want to respond and say, you know, I'm not even really responding to you. But this is a great opportunity to talk about XYZ and it's just it's wild to walk. Like no matter what you do, you're going to hear from people about how that didn't meet their expectations,
DeeDee 40:03
right, and coming to the conclusion that that's not my problem, like, and that doesn't actually mean anything, right? Oh, you shouldn't talk like that. Because you're a therapist, I'm disappointed in you, that doesn't actually mean anything to me. Right? You're a disappointment in my ability to communicate in ways that in to levels that in expectations that you have set as a stranger for me, doesn't mean anything to me. I said that to someone just yesterday, and I literally stopped because they were like, I'm so disappointed in you as a creator. And that's the one that really gets under my skin when people say they're disappointed in me, because I feel sad that to hurt you. Yeah. I mean, that's really what it is. Right? Like, and people will say a lot. Like, if you know something's not true, then why did you react to it? It'd be like, oh, like, if you react emotionally, if you'd like, see, I think I triggered something. Because you know, it's true. It's like, Okay, listen, yes, there is a degree to which if somebody like levels and insulted me, and that's like, I know that's not true. Sometimes it's like, it doesn't even bother me, because I know that's not true. But what people miss is that you can say something to me, that I know is not true. But that's not the only hurtful things that exist, like it's still hurtful, that there is a human being sitting in front of their phone thinking to themselves, how can I hurt this person? It doesn't matter whether what you're saying is true or not true, you still feel it deep in your soul, right? Sometimes I'm responding to your intention, not your words, you intended to hurt me, and to cause me harm. I'm responding to the hat. Not necessarily what you said is, it's untrue. And it doesn't hold any actual validity. Sometimes I'm responding to your intention to hurt me. Yeah. And I will say that, like, I don't get it. Like, I know that I have said some really, really direct blunt, sarcastic things to people that probably hurt their feelings as we know. Yeah. But I've never just like stumbled upon someone not harming me and thought to myself, I want to hurt this person ever. Well, people see us as punching bags. And I don't know if this is a good analogy, but it's how I see it. Like, you have pastors and therapists and helpers, and nurses, and people whose job it is to help you right. And when they see us, they oftentimes see us as people with our hands tied behind our backs, right, and I have the ability to hurt you, because I'm hurting the people that I really would like to punch on. I can't really punch on them. But you've got your hands tied behind your back, and I can beat the snot out of you. And that's gonna make me feel that it's like people who are mean to servers, and like service workers. Yeah, yeah. And yes. And then they're so offended when they realize that my hands aren't actually tied behind my back. Yeah, yeah. And you're offended, like, oh, how do you speak to me that way? Or how dare you hit me back? You slapped me in the mouth girl?
Like, what did you want me to do? I know. So I That's why I responded today, when someone said, I'm so disappointed you as a creator. And I said, this is just a reminder that if you are not my mother, my lover or my friend, telling me that you are disappointed in me is a wildly concerning unhinged thing to say to another adult? Because how are you disappointed in me, because your disappointment and me has nothing to do with me, we don't know each other. Like, I get that like, who you thought I was, or who you wanted me to be like that. I'm not that and you're experiencing the emotion of disappointment. But I do require that you have enough self awareness to realize that you need to deal with that on your own time and not bring it to me because the only reason you're bringing it to me is to shame me. That's it. That's it to shame and cause harm and to hurt me. And for me, parasocial relationships are so strange, because sometimes I think that a specific brand of person, they forget that you exist outside of their phone. And it's like, you do know, this 92nd that you see me a day, I only post once a day, and sometimes I don't post that all. So for that 90 seconds of my day, you know, there's 23 hours in several minutes that exist outside of the what, when you experience me, right, and there are people that I experience life with that I value who don't agree with your sentiments in me that make your data skewed, right, so it doesn't weigh as much because you're basing that off of 90 seconds of my day. That doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme doesn't mean a whole bunch. And the real relationships in my life, none of them require that I'd be perfect. None of them. And if I step too far out, someone will tell me someone I'm an actual real life community with and I don't have a echo chamber, like I do know, someone will tell me, right, you know, I have other people in my life who will check me if need be. And especially now we'll say I give a little bit more leeway to people who are actually a part of my online community people that I'm actually in conversation with and that I talk to on a regular basis, you know, whether it's in LA
Our lives or in comment sections and we have a relationship but a stranger that I've never seen before and that I don't know what you say doesn't mean anything to me not for real and even if I respond that's just 60 more seconds of my day. I still get to go on duty. I can't tell you what how much life this conversation has breathed into me this morning and I'm so glad that we had it can you share where people can find you if they want to come follow you? Yeah, I am DD Wednesday everywhere and give you Wednesday on Tik Tok, Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, and now I'm on YouTube. I just created my YouTube page on DD Wednesday, everywhere. That's how you can find me you can find me on all of the socials. Did you Wednesday, and it's d E d E, D E D Ds for ease. And you said you're in Louisiana Correct? I am I mean Louisiana. Nice. Do you do virtual counseling at all? I do virtual counseling and I do live coaching for everyone everywhere that that looks a little bit different but absolutely great. So if people in Louisiana are listening or if people are interested in coaching you know please check out Didi I love your content. I love everything that you bring to the table and I'm glad to know you. Thank you. And thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation. It was really great. Thank you. Oh, this has nothing to do with anything but I keep forgetting that I'm supposed to be promoting my own shit. So guys, as most of you know, I wrote a book. It's called How to keep house while drowning. If you don't know go by it. It's an Amazon. It's all the bookstores. Yeah, give it as a gift. This is like my 77 podcast episode. I'm just like, I almost never mentioned my own book. So there you go. You have to be reasonable about yourself. Awesome.