96: In Defense of Video Games (for partners of gamers) with Derrick Hoard, LMFT
Welcome to Struggle Care, where we talk about all things individual and systemic that affect your life, wellness, and mental health. Joining me is Derrick Hoard, a licensed marriage and family therapist, TikTokker, and video game aficionado. I’ve followed him since 2020, and I love his thoughts and perspectives. Today’s topic, video games and relationships, stirs up some strong reactions and opinions, but you will walk away from this episode with a fresh and thoughtful view of the hobbies we all enjoy in our lives. Let’s get into it!
Show Highlights:
Video games are misunderstood and not recognized for what they are—the most beautiful, immersive forms of storytelling that exist.
Men can get in touch with emotions through playing video games.
Video games get unjustly blamed for communication problems in relationships.
Video games comprise a safe space of non-judgment where one can feel confident and competent.
Thoughts about men in therapy, gender dynamics, and emotional labor
Consideration and honesty in relationships about our hobbies
Society’s expectation of productivity leads us to feel shame and guilt about our hobbies. This is so wrong!
Understanding how to have honest and authenticity in our relationships—from the start
Red flags to look for when video games (or other obsessive hobbies) become our ONLY coping skills in life3
Resources and Links:
Connect with Derrick Hoard: Website, TikTok, and the Mindful Gaming Podcast
Connect with KC: Website, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook
Get KC’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: www.strugglecare.com/promo-codes.
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KC 0:05
Hello, I'm sentient balls of startups. Welcome to struggle care. I'm your host, KC Davis, where we talk about all things individual and systemic that affect your life, your wellness, your mental health. After 100 episodes, I finally settled on a tagline that I like, I hope you like it. I am here with Derek cord, who is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and a tech talker. And also a video game aficionado. Would you say that's accurate? Derek,
Derrick 0:29
I would say that's very accurate, I would have listed the video games first. But that's okay, that's fine.
KC 0:36
I have followed you since literally, I think 2020 Like you were one of the first people that I followed, oddly enough. And I love your content. I love your thoughts and perspective. And you have recently or within the last year, sort of changed your content trajectory from talking about parenting and things like that to talking about video games, which I love. Because as you know, I've had a bit of a pivot in my own content. And what I wanted to talk to you about today, sort of a mirror of the two subject matters in which you are an expert, which is video gaming, and relationships. Because I love the way that you talk about this topic. And I relate to it as a someone with ADHD who is really messy, because oftentimes, if you just look at, you know, what's advice for a couple who one of them is so frustrated, because they're the only one doing all the cleaning and the other ones really messy? We go immediately to this like, well, the messy person is the one in the wrong. Like, they're the ones that need to change their standard. And they're the ones who are engaging in weaponized incompetence. They're the ones who are, you know, in being entitled and being lazy and all these kinds of things. And I'm not saying that like that dynamic doesn't exist in couples, obviously, it does. But as the messy person, I sometimes have like, a slightly different take of like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. And for some reason I really, that it reminds me of the way I've heard you talk about gaming, because I think when we talk about, Oh, I'm so frustrated, because all my boyfriend does is play games, it's really easy for our knee jerk reaction to be like, well, he needs to get a life he needs to grow up. He needs to, you know, pay more attention to you. And there was this tic toc that came out recently where and actually I've seen several of these where a girlfriend will walk in and just turn off.
Derrick 2:33
Oh my god, oh my god, I'm sorry. Or one
KC 2:38
of them. Actually, she deleted us. Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, like all of his gaming. And he had a very big reaction he did as he should, as he should. And the response was so quick to go. He must be ignoring her. Maybe she has been pleading for love and attention. And he's just been immature. And so she finally got a Yatta. And I really liked what you said about it. And so tell me this different way of thinking about video gaming, and what questions should we be asking ourselves when video gaming seems to be an issue in relationships?
Derrick 3:17
Those are all wonderful questions. Thank you so much for having me. First and foremost, like video games for me have saved my life more times than once. And I think that there is a little bit of a like misunderstanding about what video games are, what's actually happening and what's going on. Because all people who don't play video games see is someone sitting down staring at a screen for hours, pressing buttons, and randomly hooting and hollering for no reason. And that's really not what's going on video games are one of the most beautiful, immersive forms of storytelling that exist. And we go through so many emotions playing video games. And so I think that, you know, if we go back, if we go back into the past, we can get to a place where when video games first came out, it was seen as a waste of time. And then in the 90s, we had the Satanic Panic where it was like video games are gateways into the demonic. But what it really happens is it's video games usually get scapegoated for a lot of things. It's just an easy thing to blame, when in reality, you're just you're being it's so hard to explain let me call myself because I just get so overwhelmed by it because I've played so many games I've lived 1000 different lives is what I heard once at a tax Convention, which is a video game kind of community for therapists or someone said I've lived 1000 different lives. Video games are just Okay, calm down. Mr. Horn. Let me back up because you have to explain it. That's what it is. It's really hard. I think sometimes for people who do play video games to like, explain to others why we find enjoy it because it's so obvious to us. And it's not obvious to them, because there is a little bit of a barrier to entry. So I think that, you know, when it comes to let's just go right into that situation that you were talking about, for example, where the person's video game got deleted, or your husband is just sitting around all day playing video games, I'm not trying to speak for all men, because I cannot. But for men, there are very few places where we are allowed to experience the full breadth of our emotions without being shamed for it. We don't even have access to things that even let us get in touch with our emotions. And what you're not seeing when we as men are sitting down and playing video games, is the ability to be able to vicariously experience those emotions that otherwise we are locked away from experiencing. I know that many nights I have been not, you know, outwardly in tears, because that's not manly. But there have been several times where I have played video games that have allowed me to get in touch with parts of myself that I'm not otherwise allowed to, I get to experience things that otherwise would. And so, you know, when we talk about how, you know, for example, my partner sits around and plays video games all day, you know, he doesn't care, he's shirking responsibilities. How is it that he can be every single boss in Elgin ring, but can't pick up a broom and continuously clean or do anything consistently? I think what you know, and that dynamic exists, but I think what we're missing is, if we don't, you know, take the worst possible way of looking at a situation, which is something that is common now, because of the internet and social media, we have all been entrenched on one side or the other, if we don't look at it in the worst possible way, for men, specifically, but also other people play video games, too, I want to just know, but for men specifically, it's really one of the only places where we have peace. So I would say, when it comes to understanding video games differently, if you would think about it more like a book that is just alive that you can play with, I think that it makes more sense, if you would think about it like a storytelling device, that it's the same thing as reading, except instead of reading, I'm actually the character and I get to control and decide where they're going. So when you brought up, you know, the sometimes how girlfriends who might feel neglected, will walk into a room and unplug a console, you don't understand what you did. It's I'm trying to think of a good metaphor, but it would be like if you were reading a book, and your husband came in and ripped out all the pages and burn them up, but it's still not the same thing. Because you can always go buy another book, your husband cannot get back or boyfriend cannot get back those experiences that have been deleted forever. Like there's stories that have been told there's the way in which he got to where he was in his game, like, it's just people don't really understand. And then when you have that big reaction to what is ultimately a loss that you can't get back, people judge the reaction, you know, he's bipolar needs to have emotional management, emotional regulation, with actuality, you've taken away something from him, that he'll never be able to get back. So might have to ask me a more specific question, because my ADHD brain will talk about this forever.
KC 8:22
But as you're describing it, I understand because everything you're saying is exactly my experience when I read books when I read fantasy, because like, I will read pretty intensely for hours at a time, and I have lived 1000 lives. And it is this way of experiencing the realest parts of being human, that I might not otherwise get to experience and the best parts of being human that I get to go back and experience over and over and over. And, you know, it's not to say that there hasn't ever been a time where Okay, probably I should have done the laundry, but I wanted to read the book instead. Right. But I think that, to your point, like when we start out by saying the problem is, you know, we should demonize video games as immature and silly and pointless like that we're already starting off on the wrong foot. There's a really great video that you have where someone commented and said like, okay, but when someone's playing eight to 10 hours a day, and you know, they're ignoring you, you know, that's a different thing. And I love your response because you said, I mean, the thing is, is like it doesn't really have to do with the video game. inconsiderate people are inconsiderate. And so you know, if someone is struggling with this, if they have a partner that plays a lot of video games, and this partner and you and let's say I have concerns about hey, I don't I don't feel like I'm spending enough time with you or I really need more help with the various labor of our lives. What's a better way to Have that conversation that might be more effective with my partner?
Derrick 10:03
What's a really good question? So I do I want to say this when again, because I'm so used to like the extreme size being on the internet, there is no nuance it just doesn't exist. In nuance internet is where nuance ghosts die. But I do want to say this, if that because this is really important, if there are already communication problems, your relationship, I'm just Oh, I feel so free now, because there's a podcast and I can say what's on my mind, if they're already problems in your relationship. A lot of the times when there are two people who are in a relationship with each other, you live in the same house, you share a lease together, there are so many things that are keeping you together outside of just the we're going to be with each other freely. It is very difficult to actually sit down and say we are in a relationship with each other, that is just not working for us. And when you have that when it is too dangerous to look at your relationship. And honestly consider that again, sometimes not everybody is a narcissist, not everybody is out trying to hurt you. It's none of that a relationship between two people is very unique. And sometimes that relationship, the problem is the way that you're interacting with each other. But if that is too dangerous to look at denial, again, is the biggest problem. There are things I'm in denial about, like how many people my platform has touched me when you said for years, I was like oh my god. But when you're in denial about that, you will find anything and everything else to focus on other than the problem. Anything else. So video games, again, they have the unfortunate honor of being scapegoated by society at large. And so if you're in a relationship with someone who is a gamer, it is very easy to say, well, those video games are the problem, not necessarily the way in which we're interacting with each other. But if it's not video games, it will be him playing football, it will be a you know watching football, it'll be the car collection, it'll be his he was just too much anime, it will be whatever it needs to be other than Yes, it'll be golfing, it'll be hunting. Yeah, I'm sorry. You can tell him not a manly man. But yeah, it is those things that people do for enjoyment other than we have a problem with communicating with each other. And with that being said, Now that that is taken care of, if you're in a situation where you feel like you know, and again, this is that middle ground where there is room for change. But the only problem is the way in which we've been trying to change it. Like if you're in that area, one thing you don't want to do is demonize the hobby. I think having a little bit of understanding and asking, what role is this game serving, there are a lot of different ways. This is just one of them. I'm sure we'll talk about more later. But one of the things that I have noticed with this dynamic is that usually whenever the person is complaining, you don't help out around the house, you don't do enough. What I hear from men very often is that one I have tried, I really have I have done my best you asked me to clean up the kitchen, I tried to clean up the kitchen, you asked me to do the dishes, I tried doing it. And then when I did it, not only did you come behind me with a fine tooth comb and point out every single thing that I did wrong, even when I tried to do it, it wasn't like you were happy, you're proud or, you know, good job husband, it was that's what I expect you to do. And then what I often hear from the other side is, well, I shouldn't have to ask you to do it. And I shouldn't have to tell you good job for doing it. And I get that I understand there is a dynamic that exists that leads to men who have that issue. I have tried to talk about it before when I tell you they almost ran me off the internet. So I'm very careful about it. But there's a very specific experience that men go through that leads to them behaving that way. I'm not blaming anybody, it is what it is. But when they ask you know when they say that, and then they wonder why their husband goes back to the video game. One thing that I think even men themselves don't realize it is that when you play video games I know when I do if I make a mistake in the video game, it doesn't yell at me. It doesn't nag me it doesn't tell me how incompetent I am. It doesn't tell me how you know I could have done better It points out the mistake and then it very specifically guides me on the path to get where I need to go. When I do something good. Not only are there flashing lights and sounds and points and reminders, it continues to motivate me to continue to want to do it and the most important thing that a video game does that sometimes again, people who feel like I shouldn't have to explain that to my partner do is that video games guide you step by step they give you specific instruction and it does not change. It is consistent. It is reliable. I know that all I have to do is is connect continue to practice, continue to keep going. And eventually I will get it. The instructions are super clear. And there isn't any judgment of me, it's a place where I feel safe and competent. I know what the rules are, they aren't going to change, they aren't going to fluctuate, I understand that people are human, and they have emotions. And I'm asking a lot of you, I'm just simply saying sometimes if the choice is between, you know, doing an outside task, and no matter what I do, it's never good enough, versus going to a situation or a video game where I know that when I play this game, I know that I'm going to be able to be competent, I feel competent. And it continues to reinforce that. It's really no wonder why men sometimes choose to retreat into those things instead of being present in the moment. In fact, I would love there. I know, there are a lot of simulator games, if there were a cleaning simulator, I promise you that people will probably be super frustrated at how well made the game.
KC 15:59
That's what you need to make, though. Okay, but here's why. Because I can feel the ancestral collective female rage happening through the audio devices of everyone listening. But here's what I think the difference is, and why you often get, you know, run off the internet, because you are not talking like a researcher, or like a thought leader, or like someone who is making commentary on the systemic issues, gender, you're talking like a therapist, and specifically, you're talking like a therapist who is seeing this man in therapy. And I think people really forget this is that oftentimes, you know, when we talk about labor, specifically, like labor split, and Eve broadsky, does this really well, the book, How to not hate your husband, after kids does this really well. There's a difference between, hey, you know, men are often socialized in this way, women are often socialized in this way, and it creates these conflicts. And here is the barrier for both of them. And when you talk about, hey, you know, I shouldn't have to say XYZ. It's like, you're right, you shouldn't have to You are correct. But the fact that you shouldn't have to that truth does not change your relationship. Like when we're actually in the therapy office, we have to talk about functionally, what can help make some movement? And it's not that it's like, it's to truth, right? Like, it is the truth that yes, it is unfair, that, you know, let's say are the theoretical couple. And, and that's kind of what his issue is, and the woman's going, well, I don't want to be your mom, I don't want to have to say good boy, right. Like, I don't want to have to do that. That's unfair. And you're right, it is unfair, it is systemically a shitty situation to be in. And if you are this guy's therapist, you have this empathy of I understand why this is difficult. And it is valid, that this is difficult. And I think that, regardless of what the issue is, like, That's always where you have to start if you're going to help an individual person or an individual couple, create change,
Derrick 18:09
right. And I do want to say this, like, I do speak to the other side, often as well, and you bring up some really important points, you know, I do sometimes not talk like a researcher. But that's partly because I'm neurodivergent. And partly because I feel like, you know, sometimes we like, we really like hide the issues in research and language. And another thing is, again, besides what you pointed out previously, I'm also speaking on behalf of men who don't have the privilege to be as emotionally intelligent as I am. And so there are a lot of times where we bring these concepts to men that they can't even begin to conceptualize like emotional labor. Like they don't even know what that means. And like you're trying to teach them something new at the same time. And yes, you get it. But there is a privilege to being able to have access to that knowledge is a privilege to that, you know, I hear a lot of things like men need to go to therapy, that is true. But therapy, again, doesn't even feel like a safe place for me. And like there's so many times I've talked to men who have come and said, I am in therapy, because someone in my life told me that I needed to be here, and it would be good for me. And I don't even know what to do. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I just know, I'm tired of my wife being upset with me, I'm really trying. But whenever I do speak about this issue, because I can put on the researcher hat and get real deep and down and dirty with it. I've just found that that makes me more tired as a person when I'm really like getting in there talking about the systemic issues, especially if I'm just working with the wife by herself. Because I've done that before. We do talk about the fact that men are socialized into the society to believe like they don't have to do these things. You know, their men think that that's just woman's work. And this, that and other. And when I'll talk about if I don't want to get too bogged down in again, yes, the systemic factors are there. I'm not saying they don't exist. But if I don't want to get bogged down into it, I have to find a way to explain how we got where we are in a way that allows us for change because just the truth of the matter is I'm not going to change the patriarchy in my office with one light couple like I can change the dynamic for them. But I'm not changing the whole world. So the way that I'll usually explain it is, you know, at some point in your relationship, I don't know when it happen. But at some point, if you understand that's another thing a lot of people don't understand relationship, like they cannot see it. Like it's a privilege to be able to see relationship, when you really understand that then you your language changes about the way that you talk about things. And one way that I found really helpful is to say, simply, at some point in your relationship, you start I'll talk about the relationship between supply and demand. But at some point in your relationship, you started doing more around the house, and your husband started doing less. And then the less he did, the more you had to do, which is the less he had to do, which is the more you had to do, right? Like, we can talk about the systemic factors that contributed to that we can talk about how, you know, maybe he got a new job, we can talk about how maybe there were some days where you didn't mind doing more, because you had the energy, we can go through all of those things. But eventually, we got to that dynamic. That's what we need to change. And we can't do that. If we're just consistently talking about why it is the way that it is, okay, now we know why it's happening. What are we going to do about it, but I do understand why people get upset, because again, on the internet, there's no time for nuance. And I'm just speaking from the perspective of a man. And what it's like to be on the other side of the dynamic is so difficult to see what it's like to be the recipient of no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, it's not good enough. And it does get you to a place where eventually you shut down because whether I do it, you're going to be upset, or if I don't do what you're going to be upset, and it's a lot easier to just not do. It's just It doesn't matter. You know, and I think there are a lot of men that really want to be seen as competent by their partners. And yeah, no, I'm asking a lot of you, I'm asking you on top of everything else that you have to do in the relationship, you also have to tell him good job. But like, the thing is, you know, it really doesn't have to be that a lot like you could kiss a man on the cheek. And like that's one of the techniques I use when you catch him doing something that you like, I remember this, I read a book, Michelle Weiner Davis, how to get through to the man that you love. I don't know if people could probably tolerate that she talks. I don't think it would fly nowadays, I really don't
KC 22:28
quite here's why I don't hate that. Because, number one, I relate to this as being that messy person and also thinking to myself, like I would hate to live in a home where somebody was constantly telling me that like, I wasn't allowed to rest when I wanted to that like I had to be up if they were up and I had to clean to their standards, and this, that and the other. But the other reason that I relate to it is like I think as a woman who experiences like a high like I don't experience that high need for like feeling competent, I do experience a high need for feeling like desired and wanted. And it kind of feels at least I'm personally relating to it. Because when you say like, oh, kiss a man on the cheek when they bumped like, I'm like, Yeah, I would also like to be kissed on the forehead and smacked on the ass. If you think I look nice. And that might not be what you would naturally do that might you might be frustrated that I have such a high level of need of reassurance for that. and think, Well, what I told you, you know, we went on a date seven days ago, why do I need to continuously? You know, I shouldn't have to cater to your insecurity. And yes, guys, obviously, we know that there are extreme examples of this. But I think sometimes we typecast the extreme as making every other request unreasonable. And I think that sometimes, you know, giving someone a kiss on the cheek and telling them like, thank you for doing that, or you did a good job isn't all that different from saying, I just want to be smacked on the ass every time you think I look really nice, you know? Because yeah, okay, it's not great. Sure, I could go to therapy and self actualized where I never need your reassurance or whatever. But like, probably I can't. And I'm also interested in I mean, listen, there's an interesting dynamic that I don't think we have time for, like how men tend to have hobbies that take up hours and hours and hours, whether it's like hunting, or golf, or marathon running, or whatever. But I also want to kind of back up and talk about You talk a lot to men who are not in relationships that are big gamers and women too. It's not just men, but you kind of talk about also like part of your responsibility is being honest with yourself about like, this is my hobby. This is the time constraint like this is the time that my hobby takes up and if I'm not interested in suddenly having a different hobby, I need to be honest and authentic with the relationships I'm entering because sometimes that's part of it too is you get with someone at oh they like video games and she's thinking okay, but that's not going to be what it is when we yeah he'll grow up when we settle down when we this when we that And I love you talking about that, because that's something I've never heard talked about. And this is true, whether you're a gamer or a hunter or whatever, like, how do you practice consideration even as a single person in pursuing relationships when it comes to relationships, and maybe also when it comes to children, like being honest with yourself about what you are willing or wanting to do around your hobby that obviously takes up much of your time,
Derrick 25:23
right? I think just me personally, I've decided from now on, and I think this is just me being a little neuro spicy, I am not getting in another relationship with someone who does not have a hobby, or something that they enjoy in a way that we might even call a little bit obsessive. You know, there are certain things in society that are allowed to be experienced longer than others without us demonizing it. You know, one of the first things that I even talked about whenever I started getting those comments about the eight to 10 hours, you know that I play video games, sometimes not all the time, but there are definitely times, for example, my favorite game is Mass Effect. And sometimes I just get an itch, and it'll be a Friday, I'll start, and I will clear out my weekend. And I will play that game from Friday to Sunday until it's time for me to go to work again, because I really just get so lost in the experience. But I think that, you know, sometimes there are people who don't have anything that they can like, say that this is something that brings me joy, like if we lived in a world where we weren't born into a society that we had to pay for basic necessities and resources, you know, the Star Trek universe, like what would you do with your time? Like, what would you do with it? And so yeah, whenever I was getting comments, they were saying like, eight to 10 hours is so long. I remember one of the fastest ways that I got that comment to shut down was, can I please see your screentime report this week? What does it say? Because you just don't realize it whether you sit down, and you have a long streak for eight to 10 hours, or you know, that cumulative, the amount of time that you spend on social media and things like that, it's the same thing. But I think that you know, as people with hobbies, whether it's gaming, or knitting, or reading, or whatever it might be, I think, because we feel so guilty about it, because there's this societal expectation of productivity and doing something that provides value or is making money, which again, there are some people who are playing video games making quite a bit of money, I'm hoping to get their own day, you know, we're not honest with ourselves about it. And then we're not honest with the people that we're getting into a relationship with, like will downplay it, like, it might sound weird to say that, yeah, sometimes I will sit down and play video games for eight to 10 hours. And that's why I've chosen if I'm going to be with someone, you got to have a hobbit, you have to have something that you're doing, because then what happens is we can have adult parallel play, you can be doing your thing, I'll be doing my thing. And I know that my relationship is okay, even if we're not up under each other. Just honestly what happens, pretending to go through the motions of what we think a healthy relationship looks like. A lot of us grew up in families, with parents who were going through the motions for us. And we and this is not a controversial thing to say, How many times have you heard parents say I stay together for the kids, like people can see that it's obvious, you don't interact with each other, you don't do your own thing with each other. And you have all of these moments, like sitting down for dinner, sitting down and watching a movie together, we're gonna go out to the park, and it's just going through the motions. There's no actual, like, interaction between that. And so yeah, I tell people to, you know, be honest with the people that you're getting with and letting them know that like, this is something that I enjoy. And for me, sometimes it's video games, sometimes I get on a kick, where I will go see a movies, like I'll go watch movies all week, I'll go to the movie theater. And I'll just spend the day at the movies and see everything in it. Like it just it changed. So I think learning how to be honest with one yourself and removing that guilt and shame from having a hobby that isn't seen as productive or not doing anything productive, so that you can be honest with your partner, and then to making sure that the person that you're getting with that they have a hobby other than being in a relationship because when being in a relationship is your hobby, then whenever you're not engaged in that hobby, right, like you feel like there's something wrong. So I think that that's probably a really important way to look at it too.
KC 29:25
It also seems like there are probably people to which Oh, I love video games. But I don't feel like it's this passionate hobby. And so when I did find a relationship and decide to get married, have kids like it was no big deal to turn it off to like, I mean, my husband sold his Xbox when he was in law school because he was like, I'm sorry. Yeah. Because he was like, I just don't think that I'm gonna like do well in law school if I like have the ability to play games, but it wasn't that's not it wasn't like this hobby that he was like, really, really passionate about. And I think that there's also a degree to which as you mentioned, like I have to address this shame that I feel about, oh, I'm not supposed to have this hobby or let me just downplay it. And there's this responsibility to date to not date someone in a way that is so radically different than how you live day to day like, because I could see that as a woman, you know, if someone is mostly taking me out to dinner, and taking me out to do XYZ, and I'm going, Oh, this is great. And it isn't until I move in with you that I realize, Oh, that's not what like it actually is going to look like to live together. And I'm not saying like, you know, your first date should be them watching you game. But I do think they're sorry,
Derrick 30:35
because that's what mine is.
KC 30:41
And actually, that's fine. But like, there should be this level of authenticity of this is what my life looks like. And I have to be honest enough to either look for someone that I know is going to want to live that type of lifestyle, or if I meet someone, and I think that oh my god, this is my soulmate, and they don't want that kind of lifestyle, I need to have a very honest discussion with myself, not just sort of deny it and be like, Oh, it'll be fine. It'll be we'll make it work. It'll be fine. Like, we have to really be honest about, you know, what we are. And that's a very practical thing. It's non judgement. It's not what you should or shouldn't like that you should or shouldn't, whatever. Now, let me ask you one last thing, I think with anything, whether it's books or video games, or hunting or whatever, like, how do we as someone who's really into that kind of hobby, what are flags that we can look for? That might tell us? Okay, I wonder if I actually need to work on my like, toolbelt of coping skills, like not that there's anything wrong with my hobby. But what are some signs that can tell me, maybe I'm spending time in this hobby to overcompensate for some things, that I would be better served with different coping skills so that I can have a more enjoyable life?
Derrick 32:06
That's really hard for me, because, again, I know that there's an answer to this question, I might not be the one to give the answer for it simply because I mean, I am neuro divergent. And I have not found anything else besides mindfulness and deep breathing. But I haven't found anything else that allows me to deal with how confusing the real world can be. Other than video games, I'm not saying that those things don't exist. And I do practice other coping skills. But I feel like all of those coping skills that I practice, I can do them a lot quicker and a lot faster. In video games, like mindfulness, for example, you know, being able to be in the present moment, I think it does, you know, sometimes depend on your particular situation. You know, if I'm in a relationship, and every time, you know, we get upset my coping skills to go straight to a video game, and I don't know how to talk to my partner or communicate my feelings to them, then I think, you know, that definitely does get into a place where there is some issue, but just for me, specifically, and I'm kind of thinking about how I represent neurodivergent gamers and I kind of speak to their experience, it's a little bit difficult for me to conceptualize, I'm not saying it's not there. You know, I know there are two minds, and they're probably some other professionals getting really upset with me right now. But I do think that if people understood and I have to do a better job of explaining it, I really think if people understood that video games are not just it's not just entertainment, like the amount of competency and things that you can practice, not just hand eye coordination. But even empathy. There was a game that I was playing, where it's called St. Louis saga Hellblade. And she is a Viking warrior who also hears voices. And sometimes those voices in the way that the game uses, like binaural audio, like the voices sound like they're coming from different places, but sometimes they're helpful. And then sometimes they're really critical. And when I first played that, like, I teared up, because I was like, this is exactly what it feels like to be someone who is neurodivergent and have these negative inner critical thoughts mixed with these other thoughts that are sometimes positive. And in the game, I had to actually practice tuning out the negativity and only focusing on the things that were positive. And when I stopped playing, it instantly became easier for me to do in my regular life. When it comes to things like coping with feeling like I'm not good enough. I'm never gonna make me I'm never gonna be able to succeed. I was playing Elden ring in the boxes in that game are notoriously hard. And even the sense of community around it. We didn't even get to that part. Like most people don't play video games by themselves. They're playing with their friends. I have made a community of friends on the internet that some I've met in pub in real life will go into conventions together, but like beyond what some people don't see, like yeah, you're just late night playing Call of Duty. There have been times in that Call of Duty chat with my friends, where I have talked them Through I went through a divorce my friends on the internet are the reason why I'm here right now. Like they talked me through it, they would check in on me they'd send me messages on my phone Hey, man, how you doing? You know, man is.
KC 35:11
But Derek that's groundbreaking like your answer here is that there is a mindful way to use your video games. And you don't have to go, Okay, I need to do something other than video games to cope, it's I need to learn how to engage with my games in such a way where I am learning and growing and experiencing the parts of being human that stretch my comfort zone, and build my competence and my confidence and my community and my connection. And I think you gave the perfect example, you know, there's a big difference between every time we have a conflict, I have to go play a video game that, you know, allows me to numb out those feelings and not think about it versus I'm thinking about the kinds of games I like, and I'm challenging myself with games that challenge my empathy, and connect me to other people and teach me how to handle when I lose a competition. Or when I win a competition. I think the answer is that we probably need more people like you talking to, you know, people who are really into gaming about how they can be better humans through their favorite hobby, as opposed to this binary that everybody else sets up, which is if you want to be a better human, leave that hobby behind. All right. All right, Derek, we're right at time. But I would love to continue this conversation. Maybe we can do like a little part two, where we can talk a little bit more about that. And I also eventually want to do talking about maybe for some parents whose kids are really into games and how we can help facilitate that. If people want to follow you. They want to know more about you, where can they find you. So
Derrick 36:50
you can find me at the situational therapist.com That's my legacy website. And then you can also find me on Tik Tok at the situational therapist. Those would be the two primary places right now. I'm hoping to have some a few more things and also have a gaming podcast called the mindful gaming podcasts where I kind of talk about some of my experiences with gaming, definitely putting a lot more effort into that as well. Derek,
KC 37:13
this is so great. I wish we had more time. I'm gonna invite you back to talk more about this if you will come.
Derrick 37:18
For sure. Absolutely. I would love to awesome.
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